Comment by nkurz | Hacker News Reader

Comment by nkurz | Hacker News Reader

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Since "throwanem" hasn't responded, I'll jump in to say that although your logic looks like it would be right, I agree with all of his reasoning so far in this thread. Like him, I also would have happily voted for Sanders, although unlike him I couldn't bear to vote for Trump and thus "threw my vote away" on Stein because she matched my positions best.

But painful as the last couple months have been, I still still think Trump was a better outcome for the nation than Clinton. I like and respect Obama, but I don't think you understand how badly much of rural America has been doing under Democratic leadership. Voting for an independent running as a Republican may well be more logical than voting for more of the same and hoping that this time things will be different.

get money out of politics

reduce the power of the presidency

viable third (and fourth and so on) political parties

I think these are great goals, and suspect "throwanem" would agree.

do you get the impression that you are making meaningful progress towards your stated goals?

Actually, yes, but in a judo sort of way. I think the backlash will be so strong that if we can make it through his term, I think the three goals you stated are more likely to be achieved in the near future than if he hadn't have won. I think both the Democratic and Republican establishments will end up weaker than they were, which I think is a good thing, and some days I'm even optimistic enough to think that Trump might accomplish some positive things along the way.

Let's hope the price won't be too high. The problem with causing avalanches is that you can only start them, you can't stop them and there is no way of knowing what the new stable configuration will look like. There is a good chance that the new situation will be much worse than the old one, and people like Bannon want to achieve just that and are very close to being actually at the helm.

If the end result of a Trump administration is a review of politics in the United States as a whole and the world ends up with rainbows and unicorns then we're all much better off, but there is absolutely no way to be sure that is what will happen.

I couldn't have said it better.

> But painful as the last couple months have been, I still still think Trump was a better outcome for the nation than Clinton. I like and respect Obama, but I don't think you understand how badly much of rural America has been doing under Democratic leadership.

The country hasn't been under Democratic leadership. Obama faced an unprecedented level of obstructionism from Congress combined with an unprecedented deliberately planned and closely coordinated attack from media agents who deliberately sabotaged and delegitimized his administration. Try to remember that 44% of Republicans still don't think Obama was born in the US [1].

The problem with this entire sad logic chain constructed by "thowanem" and yourself is that... you still don't get it. You've learned nothing these past eight years because you don't actually understand what happened over these past eight years. You have this idea that Democrats and the establishment "ignored rural voters" -- but this is a fantasy that has no basis no in reality. The reality is that thanks to Obamacare roughly 20 million people have healthy insurance now that didn't have it before. It's the sort of thing that's very difficult to prove but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that these suicide numbers would be far worse if Democrats hadn't passed comprehensive health insurance and expanded Medicaid.

Anyways, I just want to point out, on some level, this is why thins aren't going to get better any time soon. Too much of the country is caught up in delusion and fantasy and while everybody feels like they understand what's going on... in fact very few people are looking at the facts. Fantasy, the rejection of reality. is a privilege that is not sustainable. Reality always catches up and the truth will come out. But until then I suspect we'll have a lot of nonsense discussions about how immigrants destroyed Sweden and all the problems in this country are supposed to be traced back to some mysterious "establishment."

[1] http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-poll-shows-that-41-of-rep...

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