How to Clear a Path Through 60 Feet of Snow, Japanese Style | Hacker News Reader

How to Clear a Path Through 60 Feet of Snow, Japanese Style

atlasobscura.com

323 pointsdpflan87 comments

I would love to see that first bulldozer at work. I'm a little amazed because snow becomes incredibly heavy and hard to move/push when it's packed. As the blade moves forward, that dozer will quickly have to use incredible force to move forward.

I experienced this first-hand last summer when I was driving my old Land Rover across the country. I was solo, way up in the very remote Henry Mountains [1] of Utah, about to reach the crest and continue east. I came around the bend and there was a massive drift of snow covering the trail. [2] Foolishly, I thought I might be able to drive through, or at least ram-reverse-ram-reverse-ram my way through. I should have known better. I drove into the drift and my tires sank and the face of my front axle compacted the snow ahead and just stopped. The entire front of the truck was encased. It had been a warm day and was rapidly chilling in the evening light and the wet snow froze around my axle and my truck wouldn't move an inch. I spent the next hour digging out the front of the truck in fading light and by some magic, was able to free myself and back down the precarious cliffside road to a spot where I could turn around. Lesson learned: snow is really heavy.

[1] https://goo.gl/maps/XjyNapW3XRL2

[2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/defender90/27742972523/in/albu...

Presumably they don't let a 40 feet of snow or whatnot accumulate at once. If they just clear 1-2 feet of snow every night all that involves is having a plow that can throw up the snow high enough to the sides and out of the way, which seems plausible. I say this because I presume clearing 40 feet of snow is rather impossible.

I think they were referring to a road that is not plowed all winter and in the spring they send in the bulldozer to clear an initial path until a snowblower can handle it.

>The first bulldozers will push and carry the snow forward, to areas where depths are lower and it can be pushed aside or dumped. Backhoes are used to help widen the road. When the bulldozers have come within six feet or less of the road, the rotary blowers can begin their work, and help to at last reveal the long buried asphalt.

The article goes on about it. They send a remotely operated dozer with GPS to blaze a guide path, then other dozers come in to take off layers and then it's down to 6 or so feet they send in the blowers. So, it's many machines doing many passes to get the job done.

I do appreciate the pristine snow not contaminated with rock salt, however.

It's not remotely operated:

> The GPS and sat phone work in tandem to provide the driver a detailed video screen image of the dozer’s location in relation to the center of the snow-buried highway. This driver’s job is not to clear snow, but simply to lay out an accurate track of the road itself.

Reading it again, I think you're right

Makes me think though why could they not manoeuver it remotely with remote feedback if necessary, why put someone in the cab if they have it equipped with sensors. Some other heavy equip are operated remotely.

In fact, in a lot of situations, Humans are just cheaper.

because if the terrain is dangerous to drive on (with all that snow, probably yes), the driver will likely judge much better than anything you could do remotely with current technology on whether to risk moving ahead or not

possibly, sensors have difficulty with snow? Low coefficient of friction, high reflectivity, differing levels of compressibility, difficult to judge slipping tracks, etc. Dead reckoning based on the track output probably doesn't work great.

Torque. It must be a low-range, diesel beast. It probably can't go that fast, but it's probably harder to stop than a single locomotive.

Young me does want.

Remember also that there's a big difference between the fluffy powder they're plowing in northern Japan and the wet stuff you drove your landie into.

The top may be fluffy, but by the time you've dug through the top 50ft I doubt it's very fluffy anymore.

It's dense fluff...

There is a very wide range of snow. In particular, the heavy wet stuff acts and behaves very differently from "dry" snow -- whether that's light powder on top, or compacted, but dry, snow underneath.

Wet snow is increadibly heavy, and frequently contains or mixes with ice which makes removal (blowing, ploughing, shoveling, 'dozing) far more challenging.

Compared to rocks, ice is not that dense. You can try yourself: it's easy to pickup a big chunk of ice, even with a shovel, while a similarly sized rock is impossible to lift.

And ice, quite surprisingly, is less dense than water. There are not many solids that are less dense than their liquid form.

Exactly one: water/ice

"Other substances that expand on freezing are acetic acid, silicon, gallium,[35] germanium, bismuth, plutonium and also chemical compounds that form spacious crystal lattices with tetrahedral coordination."[0]

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Density_of...

There's more than water. A lot of things that freeze into a crystal lattice can be less dense than their liquid states. Silicon dioxide is another IIRC.

...And some places have "lighter" snow than others.

I have seen experiments, where you fill a large glass with snow from the alps - and another with snow from the Rockies (US/Canada). When melted, there is only half the water in the glass from the Rockies - which is why it is powder-heaven for snow-freaks (such as myself).

I have no idea about the science - why it is this way.

Try that same experiment with a snow bank in late May from both places and you'll likely find it's equally compact once the snow pack is at 32F throughout and starting to form what is known in the trade as firn. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firn

Your linked photo hardly looks like a road.

It's more of a trail. It's the northern pass over the Henrys, a BLM road. I got stuck right about here:

https://goo.gl/maps/ZcNVUUhgJQ12

My first intuition was to drop a street view person on the map there. In retrospect, this was silly.

Keep in mind that bulldozers routinely shove other, equally dense, materials around.

To be fair, much denser materials. A cubic meter of ice (which is clearly heavier than snow) weights 1,000 Kg, any terrain/gravel/sand will weight between 1,600 and 2,000 Kg per cubic meter.

In glacier national park they use excavators for the first passes.

That's for Going to the Sun road. They don't usually punch a hole through it until May or June, either.

Sounds like you bottomed out. At that point ordinary vehicles no longer get traction from the wheels because they don't have enough weight on them, in addition to the fact that being caught in the snow means you need more traction to move.

Treaded vehicles don't have this problem if the snow is reasonably compact or they have wide enough tracks to avoid sinking in, as do snowcats or snowmobiles.

No, in my case, the axle, steering, and bumper sank into the snow and were encased. The motor simply did not have enough torque to turn the wheels. To get out, I had to excavate the entire front of the truck and then dig out a path for the front wheels to roll backwards.

One of the reasons to put tracks on a vehicle is to reduce the pressure it exerts on the ground. A bulldozer might weigh 15x as much as light truck, but if it has 75x the contact area, it would have (much!) lower ground pressure, and would be dramatically less prone to sinking into snow or mud or what-have-you.

Some sanity checks:

1993 Toyota 4Runner / Hilux Surf: 25 psi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure)

Caterpillar D6R LGP Bulldozer: 5 psi (http://www.ritchiespecs.com/specification?type=Con&category=...)

Some tracked vehicles like bulldozers are available in extra-wide track versions to reduce their ground pressure even further. It wouldn't be surprising if most of the snow fleet is so equipped.

5 psi doesn't seem like much at all! I wonder if that's a pressure survivable by a human.

Likely depends on how many square inches of the human are covered, and where on the human they are located.

For arguments' sake, the whole human.

This kills the human (joking... I don't really know)

Let's say an human with height 170cm and hip width of 85cm (these are between the averages men & women) gives a rectangular area of about 1.4 m^2; the head and legs aren't as wide as the hips, but this doesn't include the arms, so let's take it as a guess of the weight-bearing area for a prone or supine human. This area times 5 psi is more than 5,000 kg (more than 11,000 lbs). So yes, I think it would kill someone.

Surely not? The point of pressure is that it's constant per area, so no matter how much is covered, the pressure felt is still 5 psi.

No. Put 5psi on a 1 inch x 1 inch area of my hand and I will be okay.

Put 5psi on a 12 inch x 24 inch area of my torso, and I will be very much not okay.

this is correct

If you want to see some impressive snow[1] in the US, visit Crater Lake National Park in Southern Oregon during the winter. Last time I was there, the snow cuts looked just like these (though not quite as tall.)

"The average snowfall at Crater Lake is 533 inches every year. That's about 44 feet. The greatest cumulative snowfall for one season was 879 inches (73 feet) the winter of 1932-33. The greatest depth on the ground at one time was 258 inches (21½ feet) the winter of 1983. Most of the snow usually melts by the beginning of August, although after particularly heavy seasons, there are drifts that fail to melt before the snows return again in the early Fall."[2]

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=crater+lake+snow&tbm=isch

[2] https://www.nps.gov/crla/faqs.htm

We do have a few quite interesting mountaineous roads in Norway, too - matter of fact, a couple of minutes ago I heard on the radio that only two of the -hm, six? seven? I only ever use two of them- mountain crossings connecting eastern Norway to the rest of us were open due to lots of snow and poor weather in latter days. Those two are now convoy only.

Have a look at this, for instance:(0) Not as elegant as the Japanese operation, but the photo probably predates GPS, to the Norwegian snow plow crews credit. I'd feel very small traversing down that road. Doubly so if I suddenly met a heavy truck, a bus or anything larger than a bicycle, really...

I just stumbled upon a couple of nice photos of the current weather conditions at Haukeli, one of the passes currently closed. Just click the photo for the next one. (1)

(0) http://www.gibud.no/auction/APUserImages/2015B105661F1LTLXUH...

(1) https://www.nrk.no/hordaland/sa-vakkert-kan-det-vaere-a-vent...

Sorry slightly off topic. Crap! I think have crashed exactly by the Haukeli tunnel. It was years ago and we were doing a mountain crossing with convoy driving through the worst parts. I was behind some old geezer and just coming out of the tunnel he gets blinded by the light/snow and slams his breaks. Me too close and eager just behind him just somehow manage to overtake him in the narrow tunnel, but unfortunately had I too fast speed and bumped the next car slightly. There was just a small mark on the car, but they still did a full checkup and sent us the bill. My boss wasn't happy, but I didn't have to pay ,even if it was 100% my fault.The following mountain crossings since that I have taken bit more easily.

For some US background on deep snow plowing:

* Yosemite: https://www.nps.gov/media/video/view.htm?id=F99C47BC-DA5D-5D...

* Glacier: https://glaciermt.com/blog/plowing-glacier-national-parks-go...

* More Glacier: http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/05/11/pioneering-the-road-to-...

General National park: http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2014/03/videos-offer-pl...

Beartooth Pass in northern Wyoming is intense as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdrGQiE5EM

https://www.nps.gov/features/yell/slidefile/history/1946_199...

I drove the beartooth highway this summer. IIRC, signs said it was closed all winter.

Yeah, typically opens in June and then closes at the first healthy snowfall, which is probably September.

Clearing doesn't always work. Here are photos from Hokkaido of cars with people in them buried in snow drifts.[1] Six deaths. One train derailment.

Note the poles over the road with the downward pointing arrows. That shows where the road is, when it's buried.

[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287894/Japan-storm-...

I almost clicked the dailyfail link. Almost.

https://archive.fo/U4tBx

Avoid the Fail.

Very interesting. I wasn't familiar with Toyama. But I spent last December and January in Sapporo. People mentioned last year in December they had most snow in last 15 years. I was comparing my experience in Sapporo with living in Ottawa. Both places seem to have similar winter. I can see myself living in Sapporo in winter but not in Ottawa. The main difference was the snow ploughing of roads and sidewalks. It was much better in Sapporo than Ottawa. Also Sapporo has very good subway and underground walkways so your exposure to winter conditions is somewhat reduced.

“I remember when I was in high school there was a lot more snow,” says Tanikawa, who is now 50. “In the morning snow fell and it would fall all day while we were at school. When I came back home there would be 40 to 50 centimeters of snow to clear.”

“My children,” Tanikawa adds, “have not had that experience.”

And he had to walk 10 km uphill both ways to and from school, I'll bet.

My first introduction to Canada was something like this. The winter I got there the first time was some of the worst weather in decades, the trip from Dorval airport to Montreal was through a canyon just like the one in the picture. The only thing sticking out of the snow was the tops of the lampposts.

1997/1998 was quite the introduction to the concept of 'winter' for me. In NL a harsh winter might see one night of -15 and the rest of the time a bit below or around freezing. That winter saw one of the worst ice storms in Canadian history, lots of electrical infrastructure went down under the weight of the ice, power grid pylons breaking off like match-sticks.

Another place where these snow canyons are made in winter is Alaska.

By contrast, Vancouver, BC's idea of clearing one inch of snow is to dump two inches of river sand on it that will still be there in July, destroying your bicycle's drive system.

"Syracuse, New York, often dubbed the snowiest city in the United States, receives, on average, 117 inches of snow a year. "

Not even close. Valdez, Alaska averages 305.8 inches per year.

Valdez has a population of 4_000

So what happens when all that stuff starts melting?

“This is a job and someone has to do it,”- this comment from the article just made my day. Hats off, such an awesome attitude and dedication towards work.

It's just like that one Mario Kart 64 level with the snow, except IRL. So that's where the Japanese level designers got their inspiration from!

That was my first thought as well :)

For reference: http://i.imgur.com/vlbUC.jpg

Mt Baker WA 1998/1999 season 1140 inches and that was just at 4200 feet at the resort. Road snow canyons is cool.

Also see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxAvHdrK6U for a nice video. Although not as much snow, there are still locations in Norway where you can find similar conditions.

Not nearly as deep, but the Sierra should have lots of snow this summer. Reference https://www.nps.gov/lavo/planyourvisit/fourth-of-july-weeken...

Lassen NP can also have snow canyons[1] after they plow the snow in late spring. Nothing like 60' but 20'

[1]http://www.nationalparksblog.com/lassen-volcanic-national-pa...

Edit, looks like your sierra ref is mostly about Lassen which is not really the sierras but an old volcano n.west of them.

We don't get huge amounts of snow in Scotland but we do get a lot of wind which can pack the snow into gullies giving impressive snow depths - I've seen claims of over 30m in places (the Ciste Gully on Cairngorm), the Cairngorm access road also has problems with snow as it tends to completely fill up at various places.

Very frustrating not being able to ski because of too much snow!

The tendency for what snow we do get to blow off elsewhere is why ski areas in Scotland have huge amounts of snow fencing (they are all above the treeline) to try and trap the snow in place.

Whenever british friends get frustrated about Heathrow turning into meltdown mode because of 5 mm of snow I enjoy posting them this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myaH9ClDjW8

I was in a car to Niigata (near Toyama) a few years ago in february, and the walls were about 10 feet high. First time I'd ever seen them, and I was definitely in awe.

Btw Toyama has great water and consequently is home to some of the finest sake distilleries in the country.

I'm looking at the vertical sides of the cut, and I'm really surprised it doesn't collapse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose

On packed snow like that, you can even have an angle > 90 deg.

Want to see more about supposedly impossible angles of repose in sand? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0olpSN6_TCc&list=PL4jYkQtnRH...

Logan Pass in National Glacier Park gets similar accumulations of snow. Thia is off topic, but I would highly recommend this drive in the summer. One of the most stunning roads in North America.

youtube has some videos on how it's plowed on the alps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzzwEQF84WE

Tateyama or Mt. Tate but never Mt. Tateyama

The repetition makes sense to me because it works in both languages. Mt. Tate would confuse locals. Mt. Tateyama satisfies the need to make it "english" and also works in Japanese because they can just ignore the Mt. part.

But people are fine with Mount Fuji...

Incidentally, most people are also fine dropping the "Mount" prefix for Everest, Kilimanjaro amongst others...

Mt Fuji works because of the historical context. There are plenty of words and loan words now that would be different if they were translated using best practices today.

I for one am fine with dropping the Mt prefix. Most of the people mountains are named after are dead now so there is no need to disambiguate them.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this issue; signposts here translate e.g. 長良川 as Nagaragawa River. I thought it was silly, but if you talked about the "Nagara" I bet 100 yen that you will get a sideways look.

I can see your point, but and maybe I'm being fastidious, but I Nagaragawa River also irritates me. It's only born of ignorance - no one calls it Mt Montblanc.

I get it - the original meaning of the word is as relevant to its name as is the combination of the words forming its proper noun. To the Japanese Fujiyama is Fujiyama, and so there goes an argument for transliterating the name. And as point out, good luck communicating with a local when you ask where the "Nagara" is.

But look at the converse: Loch Ness 尼斯湖nisihu in Chinese

ネス湖 nesuko in Japanese

Human ingenuity never stops amazing me.

This place is full of snow but hats off to those people clear the path !

Does this website (atlasobscura) ever do anything other than repost viral stuff they copied from around the web?

I know someone who has sold content directly to them, so yes.

Where was this copied from?

Isn't that perfectly fine as long as they have an agreement with the original copyright owner (paid or unpaid)? It's called curation and I very much enjoy places that curate and collect stuff (see kottke.org)

I expected someone wielding a Katana to hack it away...

That's a cartoonish misapprehension of Japanese society.

Copy cat from Europe invention. This snow blower were invented many decades ago. The original vehicles from the 1930s are still in use in winter in the Alps - on mountain roads and trains.

Did the article claim the Japanese invented the snow-blower?

Have you even read the article? The headline already suggests "japanese style" even though it's just a common practice used for decades around the world. And the articles goes in great length mentioning a 600 horse power machine that is common elsewhere as well. And Japan was very well known for their "tourists" that took photos of everything oversees just to clone and rebuild it in their home country. (well nowadays other countries do that)

It's the use of GPS followed by a fleet of dozers that's unique, as far as I can tell.

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