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Comment by nailer | Hacker News Reader

As a non American, for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable.

I live in London. I generally pay the service charge. Once out of every hundred times I eat out, I ask them to remove the service charge as I spent ten minutes trying to get someone's attention to order, rather than talk to my dining companions.

Service doesn't make a huge different for transport though. It's either on time, clean, and takes proper route or not.

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pro tip: in london the service charge rarely goes to staff. service charge is not the same thing as a tip, which should usually be cash if you wish it to go to the waiter.

So is it obligatory to pay the service charge? If not, then I would prefer to deduct it and offer the same amount as a tip.

You can do that but it's a faff. I often think I should but don't get around to it. You are not legally obliged to pay the service charge in the UK at any rate.

Depends on the place. You can always ask staff if the service charge goes to them or is taken by management.

London here; You can ask, but on several occasions I've had them indicate they're not allowed to answer the question. Absolutely bullshit behaviour from an employer and in which case I'll insist it's removed and give the waiter/waitress cash.

I usually get the service taken off the bill and leave slightly more in cash. (Even if the server says, "it's okay, we get the service charge").

I don't know that to be generally true based on both my experience in the industry and those people I know still in it.

There were certainly places I worked where any credit card tips were declared for tax whilst cash tips weren't. This is one reason why staff preferred cash. Similarly in some places cash was distributed by shift whereas cards were distributed monthly based on hours worked.

As a final point, the idea of tipping the person directly is not consistent with anywhere i've ever worked. Even when distributing at the end of a shift, everyone would have put tips in the jar to be shared between staff.

> This is one reason why staff preferred cash. Similarly in some places cash was distributed by shift whereas cards were distributed monthly based on hours worked.

Let's call a spade a spade. It's for tax evasion purposes. That's the reason that the IRS assumes that you make 15% tips on everything if you're a server. (Otherwise people would never report it and to caught the large amount would never be recovered)

> for jobs where the service makes a significant difference, a service charge or tips seems reasonable.

I'm skeptical of even that. There are lots of jobs with a large range of quality in industries with no tipping, and the market ends up working fine as a way for the best to rise to the top. You wouldn't tip your lawyer or a freelance developer.

Why are some industries different?

When you think about it a bit more it doesn't actually seem reasonable.

What shop do you know of where they'll let you choose food, take a bite and then pay what you feel it's worth? Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco.

Sometimes I buy fruit and it goes bad too fast. That's life. Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free? Because there's a significant minority of people who will always find fault just so that they don't have to pay.

>> for jobs where the service makes a significant difference

> this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco.

This is irrelevant. See quote from comment you're replying to.

> Sometimes you get a shitty waiter, that's life, but now you get to unilaterally decide you'll get that service for free?

No, the waiter still gets paid.

When you eat out and get shit food, there is a bone or something in your food, you usually can just tell them and they'll do something so you don't pay the full amount, it's common courtesy.

> Hmm, this donut's a bit stale, I'm not prepared to pay anything for it thanks Mr.Tesco.

You go to the customer service desk, say "This doughnut is stale" show your receipt along with the partly eaten doughnut, then get a full refund or exchange as you prefer.

If you're doing it daily the rules will change. :)

Your examples are not very good. Most grocery stores will let you take back bad produce within a reasonable amount of time.

I've gotten burned a few times when buying bags of things like potatoes and onions and not seeing a bad one in the middle that had started to infect the others. Never had a problem returning. Aldi even gives money back plus a new item

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