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Comment by xupybd | Hacker News Reader

Yes you have to file an IR3 if you make other income.

http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/end-year/ir3/ii...

My favourite part of our tax system is the advice to file if you have "income from an illegal enterprise"

EDIT: Just as a reply to the original point. I'm not sure how complicated the US system is. I'm not trying to say it's bad either, it just seems to me that we have a system similar to the one that is getting lobbied against. And I like our system, it works well for me..

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I'm not sure how complicated the US system is

FYI - At various stages of my life I've filed in New Zealand, Australia, UK, Switzerland and the US (California).

I can't generalize to all persons, but I do have a decent spread of countries in my own experience - and the US was by some serious margin the most complicated.

It isn't that bad in the US using turbo tax. Just remember to answer no to receiving payments from the "Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement". (Actual question).

Why should I have to pay $100 to file my taxes?

A counter viewpoint - maybe the system has to be complicated to provide all the various incentives that voters want taxes to do, and to patch all the loopholes that would otherwise be open. Maybe such a system is too complicated for a lay person to understand so they delegate the understanding to private enterprises which can compete to provide the cheapest or easiest interface to the complicated system. If it wasn't the taxpayers paying for the complexity directly, it would be the government which would charge everyone via those same taxes to implement their own clunky government computer system that people would hate even more.

Countries with simple tax rules don't get to micromanage their economy so much.

The system can be complicated, but all those complications can be handled by the tax agency. For the vast majority of people out there, all the data that you put into your tax return is something that IRS already has, or can easily obtain. And when that is not the case, you should really only need to tell them once (and then update if it ever changes, like the number of kids you have).

Tax filing in US is a huge waste of people's time. I wonder if anyone ever computed the amount of people-hours spent on this malarky, and how much productive output it could generate if used for something else.

HR Block is free if you just file a 1040, the "professional" version is $40. If you're paying $100, either you are seeing a tax professional in person or you are vastly overpaying. Presumably you would only meet with a tax professional if your situation is significantly more complicated than most.

I pretty much have to pay the higher amount for preparation, lest I end up in a legal quagmire over the few thousand I earn on the side a year via 1099 income. I can handle the EZ form, but the stuff for business expenses and income become interesting to say the least.

Although I guess it could be worse... I generally have extra taken out of my regular paycheck so I don't have to make quarterly payments. But it's just guesswork for the most part, as I just don't know where things will be precisely. Some years, I'm happy not owing anything, or at least much (I've owed the state a couple times), Other years I get more back than expected.

Kind of an ironic comment on an article about how the maker of said software is lobbying to keep taxes complicated so they can continue to sell you their software, isn't it? :)

> It isn't that bad in the US using turbo tax.

That's entirely the point of the linked article. TurboTax has lobbied to keep the system convoluted so they can sell you their software.

This advice is probably not explicitly given by the IRS, but it is what any decent tax attorney will tell you. They got Al Capone not for his other crimes, but for tax evasion.

The IRS is totally explicit about this:

"Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity."

"If you receive a bribe, include it in your income."

"You must include kickbacks, side commissions, push money, or similar payments you receive in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040), if from your self-employment activity."

"If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless in the same year, you return it to its rightful owner."

See: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

That's fantastic. Especially the theft part.

Im not sure if there is anythng special about it. You can take a bribe, get caught and sentenced but that doesn't excuse you from paying taxes. IRS just wants their cut; they are not criminal law enforcers, just a collection agency.

I think the common expectation is that the illegal income/property will be seized by the state and hopefully returned to its rightful owner. No need to tax anything since the thief won't have anything left at the end.

The IRS seems to account for that with "unless in the same year, you return it to its rightful owner."

I wonder what happens if you steal something, keep it until the next year, and then return it? Do you declare it as income in the year you steal it, and a loss in the year you return it?

(Probably not. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I recall another document that explains that, while income from illegal activities is taxable, expenses for illegal activities are not deductible.)

I'm also a kiwi and have been working for over 15 years and have a student loan. The only time I have to do anything is when I file an optional personal tax summary to see if i/them owe anything. It takes less than 5 minutes online and is free.

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