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Comment by jimmywanger | Hacker News Reader

I think it bears repeating that there has been no hard evidence turned up in any of this. Even the single non-anonymous story doesn't have any corroborating evidence or records, and the charges of "investigation" and "harassment" have been only reported by the original reporter of the story.

The fallout has been that somebody has been let go after non-substantiated rumors about his activities at a previous employer, and now people are being pressured to leave the company and end all association with the company.

This is definitely an unjustified (based on the revealed evidence) reaction, and this is how witch hunts start.

Now I have heard second hand that the work and engineering culture at Uber needs some help - in terms of hours worked and technical discipline. That sort of thing seems plausible.

However, for anything that implies this level of harassment, there had better be more hard evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

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> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof

That phrase was originally invoked to describe telekinesis. I'm not sure 'Silicon Valley company has problem with female employees' falls into that category.

"Astronomical" was originally invoked to describe space but that doesn't stop your comment from being astronomically worthless

You're right, this is an ordinary claim that only requires ordinary evidence, something still lacking.

Comparing the claims that have been made to be equivalent to 'Silicon Valley company has problem with female employees' is like saying that the maiden voyage of the Titanic did not go as planned, or Michael Jordan was a pretty good basketball player.

Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is something entirely else.

> Talking about one particular conversation is one thing, alleging a pattern of sexual abuse and systemic harassment that completely crosses all lines for everybody is something entirely else.

Like the one alleged to have existed at GitHub?

Maybe such a pattern in SV is not so 'extraordinary' after all.

GitHub is a very good example. Whatever happened there, was probably not sexual discrimination.

We need to stop doing this in every thread. These women are taking huge risks by speaking publicly and asking for proof is insulting to say the least.

This is an insane reaction. There is literally no other charge for which "I would like to see supporting evidence of this claim" is somehow problematic.

It's really not when you realize these aren't extraordinary claims. Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence.

>Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence.

Insisting on evidence is verboten. On HN.

I'm quickly growing tired of this place.

Much of this thread is people arguing this is embellished, untrue, the cost of doing business, or a conspiracy. Not to fear, I think your side of nonsense is safely represented.

* the evidence pedant corrected my spelling

> imbellished

*embellished.

> untrue

We don't know whether the claims are true one way or another. What we do know for certain is that the claim has affected many people's careers and the financial success of a large company.

If these claims are proven true, punish those responsible. If they're not true, punish those who harmed the lives and reputation of others.

> Those that wish to distract from the industry's systemic issues insist on evidence

Yes, because it would be nice to know if it really was a systemic issue before wasting time and energy fixing it. "It's totally an issue, trust me" isn't worth acting on.

How many accounts of harassment do you need to believe there's a problem, out of curiosity?

Nearly every woman in the industry has a story to tell, most say nothing. You'd know that if you'd bother to speak to any.

> How many accounts of harassment do you need to believe there's a problem, out of curiosity?

Zero, I'm not taking anecdotal evidence.

> How many accounts of harassment do you need to believe there's a problem, out of curiosity?

How many accounts of the effectiveness of homeopathy do you need to believe that it works, out of curiosity?

Really? How is it insulting?

So if I was a woman, you'd be ok with me going to the police and saying that you stole my wallet - even though I had zero proof of that ever happening?

A stolen wallet is just like someone putting their career on the line because of a feckless HR department. Wait, no it isn't.

Not even what I was talking about, but sure go right ahead and keep typing whatever you want.

If you get around to it, feel free to answer my actual question at any time you like.

It's very simple when you realize they have everything to lose and little to gain by speaking up. I don't know how this isn't abundantly clear to anyone littering this thread with nonsense about evidence.

How is it a huge risk? No one will remember any of their names in a week and if their allies in this thread are too be believed they can walk into a job elsewhere.

I agree with you about the bravery of women who came out with their stories and thank them for stirring this public discussion.

However in the context of TFA, the campaign to make Uber employees quit is an _action_, and it still based on accusations (however credible they may sound). This sounds a whole lot like a witch hunt. In enlightened modern-day Silicon Valley, that is.

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