Ask HN: How can an older developer thrive? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How can an older developer thrive?

46 pointsmijustin21 comments

I'm almost 40 years old. I was a speaker at tech conference in the summer, and I was the oldest speaker there. It feels like younger folks are coming up fast, can work longer hours, and are cheaper.

I'm wondering how have you dealt with the challenge of being an older dev?

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Forget about working at web startups, they are soul suckers.

Move to a big established company. (Doesn't matter Google, Oracle or a Bank). Find a place that suits you. You want a good health insurance? You want to NOT work 60 hours a week for free food? There are places like that... just not typically advertised on HN :D

In some locations (London), older people all move to contracting. More money, less demanding and you can handle your life as you wish.

In other locations, they might gravitate to defense and government agencies.

Basically, you "just" need to get in an environment that doesn't favor long hours and cheapness.

> There are places like that... just not typically advertised on HN :D

Not looking for free information, but where would I go hunting for this sort of thing? Or is it mostly word-of-mouth?

Only 36, but -

Working longer hours is counter-productive, it reduces output. And having a lot of experience means being able to come up with a better way to do things, which typically saves time.

So, I work for companies that don't confuse hours worked with output.

Exactly. With experience, I'm more productive without working harder. It's not that I write more lines of code, either. It's that I make fewer false starts, so I have to throw less away. I make fewer bad architectural decisions, so I have to write less code. I use libraries better, so I have to write less code. I write fewer bugs, so I have to spend less time trying to find and fix them. I make less of a mess out of the code, so I can read and understand it again more quickly later.

I have made the same observation. Long hours for too long and people start to make less smart decisions and meeting somehow take longer. I assume it is because all that socialization and chatting people need creeps into meetings. Less smart decisions means more chaos, no prioritisation and more late night bug fixing leading to the cycle.

Work for company that values output more then worked hours. But also, find workplace that needs the experience - e.g. place that needs people working more independently or figure out less known technologies or needs them to communicate with customers or has big more complicated projects or something like that.

Yep, can't agree with this more!

My strategy is to hit FI before turning 50 (Financial Independence)

Then you can build startups. Raise goats. Whatever!

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim...

If you're in the U.S., look into contracting/consulting directly for companies. Companies pay handsomely for a couple of things: (1) risk reduction and (2) pain relief

I don't recommend trying to meet their needs for #1. I just mention it because I think a lot of people give risk reduction away for free i.e. fixed price contracts. If you do decide to offer a fixed price, at least double your rate. You'll still lose money but maybe not as bad. ;-)

Pain relief, on the other hand might be in your wheelhouse.

Let me clarify; sometimes when a manager needs to get certain projects done, throwing 6 junior programmers isn't going to cut it. Sometimes a manager needs someone who has a lot more fk ups [where do you think experience comes from?] under their belt and now knows what to do. If you can be that guy, you can make his pain go away to the tune of $150-200/hr.

If you are 40 and speaking at a Tech conference how much experience do you have? Maybe start looking at moving away from the "Coal face" of development? I moved to Architect level 7 years ago and am progressively doing less and less coding whilst not feeling like I am losing out (I love to code). You are right in that there are a lot of younger devs coming up, but those younger devs need experience in order to thrive as in my experience a lot of them prefer the fanciest route of newest technologies without the foresight to see where things can go wrong (I am a great believer in "The most boring solution" - but the best tool for the job). Someone mentioned below about companies that don't confuse hours worked with output, this is key in my opinion, just because someone worked 14 hours doesn't mean they necessarily output more work than someone who worked 6! I would also say look at contracting / consulting if you have the experience, this allows you to work on your own terms, it changes your mindset of providing value to a client, you become much more results focused! Good luck with whatever you do - 40 is by no means a barrier to anything in my opinion!

Stop thinking you're old, and that exploiting people (very long hours, low pay) is normal for companies.

Places that exploit employees like that are not healthy places to work for anyone of any age.

40? Ha! I have shoes older than you..

Not really.. but I am a bit older than 40 and if what you are looking for is a steady source of income, I would recommend you to look for places that have large investments on older ( >10 years) technologies that you already understand. Younglings don't care for stuff like Foxpro, Cold Fusion, SQL Stored procedures, etc.

*It kind of sucks, but pays the bills :)

If you're 40, you have ( or should have) nearly a couple of decades of hard-won experience in building software, working within organizations to get things done, and subject matter expertise in the types of projects you worked on [0]. That should show up both in your resume / work history and in the more challenging projects you're able to take on.

Don't try to compete with younger people based on number of hours or cost; that is a game you are guaranteed to lose.

[0] Conversely, if you don't have those things, now is the time to start stepping up to the plate and acquiring them. The best of the younger people you are competing with are already working hard at doing so.

> "If you're 40, you have ( or should have) nearly a couple of decades of hard-won experience in building software"

Why should every 40 year-old have 20 years of experience building software? Most 20-somethings weren't building software 20 years ago. Do you feel that people in their 30s can't (or shouldn't) learn to code?

BTW - here's some resources I've already read, which were helpful:

http://www.selfstarter.ca/1916-2/

https://improvingsoftware.com/2009/05/19/programmers-before-...

Take leadership roles at early stage startups. Find non technical founders that are looking for a CTO or VP engineering. Sell your skills, experience, wisdom, and yes age. You'll have to balance architecture, coding, and managing. At your age this is probably the best bet - to continue coding but also stay relevant and not compete with young coders. In short, leadership roles are your best option.

As I've gotten older, I've definitely noticed it's become harder and harder to find jobs. Even contracts have been harder to pick up, the market is really flooded and I've got a in demand skill-set.

My solution and best advice is to try and move into a management position. If you're speaking, you're good with presentations and people. You can mentor, and speak to experience without having to keep up with the younger, cheaper generation.

I think the key here is to keep up-to-date and constantly learn new stuff. You need to keep your skills sharp and keep learning new tech. Simply put, you have to learn something new all the time to keep current. If you stagnate, you will run out of options. See my post here http://www.selfstarter.ca/

why does this matter, I plan to keep coding into my 70s, no joke.

just keep learning and designing and coding the rest will follow, age is secondary I believe.

Unfortunately, things don't always go as planned. I'd love to be doing this when I'm 70, but I'm not sure my mind and body (eyes, hands) will be able to do it.

Sincerely having perspective in technology pays off. I feel the tech market is like a rollercoaster. You start your career going up with one technology, then leave when it is going down, switch to other stuff...

... and suddenly you witness the same pattern you saw 15-20 years ago. And you know how the market will respond.

Use that experience wisely.

And enjoy the ride ;-)

You can finish the same work in a short time because of your experiences, you don't need to work longer hours, 40 is not old, it's the beginning of getting old, just keep moving.

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