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Comment by omarchowdhury | Hacker News Reader

I lost $100K+ on AdSense due to what I believe is a nasty competitor seeking to get my account disabled. After making the case to Google, they said they would reinstate the account and pay me what was owed. I then suggested measures that we were going to take on our end to prevent competitors from doing that again, and lo and behold, 24 hours later the Google rep tells me I'm not getting paid. No lawyer was willing to take the case, because it's Google.

I literally lost $100,000 because I suggested to Google that we would take proactive measures to prevent fraud. As if having the knowledge to do so meant we were committing fraud.

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No lawyer was willing to take the case, because it's Google.

That seems bizarre. The last account I read of an actual legal action against Google was a small claims procedure for a few thousand, and IIRC the conclusion was that Google basically didn't show up on court day and lost by default. I could understand not working on contingency if a lawyer feels the case isn't clear-cut, but no-one taking a six-figure case? Surely they must have had more than just "It's Google" to put them off if everyone was saying no?

Lawyers are really expensive. You would need to turn it into a class action or you would be blowing through a ton of money, up against the best lawyers in the game.

Uh, if you are legitimately losing $100k, then spending $10k on a lawyer is...umm...not expensive?

$10k would be extremely cheap? H3H3 is facing a copyright infringement suit. His lawyer sent him a bill for the month for $50k of prep work.

IP-related lawsuits are notoriously expensive, but what we're talking about here seems to be alleged breach of contract. The discovery process ought to obtain Google's records of ad views and whatever they're relying on to justify withholding the payment, and then either they have enforceable terms that allow them to do that or they don't.

I know the US legal system has an awful reputation for costing lots of money that mostly only goes to the lawyers, but really, if you can't effectively enforce your rights even after being ripped off to the tune of $100,000, your legal system is literally worthless to any normal person. I find it hard to believe that even the US system is that crazy.

I didn't reach out to many lawyers. After hearing a few not wanting to be David against Goliath, I just came to terms that I should not be building a business on a revenue stream like Adsense where an automated review can mean the difference between being in business and not, and moved on. I sense you may be implying that maybe I was breaking the TOS, but know that we were getting paid significant amount by Google already, and had no business practice change by the time we were canned at the $100K level.

Fair enough. Can't argue against being pragmatic in business.

I sense you may be implying that maybe I was breaking the TOS

No, that wasn't my intent at all. I was just reasoning that if you had a deal with Google where you would normally expect to be paid, they would need some basis for not paying you (or, one would hope, they would lose the case and you'd get your money). They might be unhelpful in terms of not telling you why that is at first, but if you're taking real legal action they can't just say "Not gonna tell ya!" any more (or again, one would hope, they lose the case). If they did come back with something from their terms as their justification, then you would have to see whether those terms stood up in court.

Looks like a class action against Google for Adsense terminations was dismissed by a California judge:

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news...

It also looks (from the summary you linked) like the lead plaintiff had somehow admitted to multiple violations of the TOS and failed to follow some sort of required dispute procedure, though, so from what you said before, that doesn't sound like the same situation that you were/are in.

There are no slam dunks in cases like this? I would have at least had a lawyer send a letter and maybe file the case to see if they would have released the funds. I don't think they have legality to keep what he has earned even if it was from a thousand or two dollars in illegal clicks. Their system can decipher bad from good clicks, then it can tell you how much is rightfully owed.

Of course there is risk involved in any formal legal action. But equally, a business is not above the law just because it has a lot of money, and having expensive lawyers doesn't magically mean you win every case.

With $100K in dispute, it would be surprising if no lawyer would even be willing to take the first steps, or if the cost of paying one to do so would be so outrageous that it wasn't worth considering if Google really were pulling a fast one.

Seriously. I'm a lawyer and I'll take the case. Since no one else wants it, let's do it on a contingency basis. (I am a lawyer, but that was not an actual offer -- just an offer to discuss.)

Another would be to file a claim in small claims court for the max allowed there -- say $10k or whatever and see what happens. You could even represent yourself there after doing a few hours research. Judges will practically let you write your briefs in crayon in some jurisdictions.

I'm a lawyer and I'll take the case.

(Throwaway account because I'm afraid of retribution by Google...)

How would a prospective client get in touch with you?

(Edit: I am not the person you replied to...)

This happened in 2012. 5 years, would that be nearing the statute of limitations for this sort of thing, if there is one?

What do you mean by "lost $100K+". Does that include revenue from potentially fraudulent traffic? The thing is, if it's impossible to tell if that traffic was fraudulent, Google is most likely reimbursing the advertisers. It's not like they are putting the money in their pocket.

I had $100K in total earnings that were unpaid by the time the disable happened. We were getting regular payments beforehand.

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