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Comment by huffmsa | Hacker News Reader

Paper trail?

What are you hiding citizen? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -Edward Snowden

To be the devil's advocate here, what situation can you imagine that would warrant a person to legitimately hide information or keep secrets from their own government?

Consider that what the government knows could become public due to leaks, changes of government (election, war), third party access, etc.

I certainly do not want my bank passwords to be with the government. My bank accounts can be wiped out. Hence I do not like my communication recorded at all for this reason.

Not everything that is a law should be. Why is marijuana even illegal? Can ANYONE even answer that in the context of alcohol being legal?

So yes, for this any many other reasons, it's good to keep secrets from the government.

By the way, pot is just an example, you can literally dig millions of unjust laws up if you looked, we're all just conditioned to OBEY.

Alcohol is involved in a very large number of deaths in the US every year. A very large proportion of suicides, automobile deaths, shooting deaths, diabetes deaths, and so on are directly caused by alcohol consumption.

It's not like we need more people running around with impaired decision making ability.

Because they have different psychological effects. One makes you think, the other makes you stupid.

* Your government isn't a utopia, and thus has corruption

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from your stalker

* Your stalker has friends who work for the government

* Your stalker works for the government

* You're gay, and live in the UAE, where your outing may result in your death

* You're gay, and live in the USA, where your outing may result in your death

* Your government has too many laws to count - nevermind read - and can find a violation of them for anyone, given enough time

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from other governments

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from your competitors

* Your government won't adequately protect collected information from identity thieves

Trust is a two way street. How can you tell me that I have nothing to hide while keep secrets from me?

The govt is not my girlfriend. Why would I want tell them anything?

Any that could be used to blackmail that person. Think sexual preference.

I actually think this is a great question and I'm glad you asked it because it's such a common response to privacy. It's gotten good responses.

The government is not perfect. It's made of people. People who may be racist, sexist, homophobic, desperate for money, greedy, or corrupt.

- Someone's ex burned them, now they hate everyone of __ gender and go out of their way to dig through information of those people and get them in trouble.

- Someone is anti-LGBTQ+ and uses information to hunt people down and get them killed.

- A racist particularly hates a certain race, and now goes after them in particular for small law breaking things -- jaywalking when no cars are coming, not using their blinker, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. And while those are all crimes, now people of that race are being punished disproportionately.

- Businesses with their hands in the government now have information to use against their competitors and create monopolies

- Limits free speech - can't even discuss things privately.

- Further removal of all freedoms because now you can't get away with anything even if it's a controversial thing such as drugs, sexuality, art/music, and protest.

etc.

A bit late to this discussion, but the question of why someone would want to hide information from the government of today is not necessarily the right question.

Governments are not permanent. Significant changes in government can occur through democratic election, revolution, invasion (Ukraine?). Such changes can happen very rapidly. Records can not always be easily purged.

If the incoming government is ideologically opposed to something that you are or you declare (race, religion, political views) and they have a lot of information about you collected by the previous government - then you could very well be in mortal danger.

There are many examples of this in history.

So benign governments should aim to collect the minimum of information required to deliver good service to its citizens. Neither you nor your hopefully benign current government can trust the governments that are to come.

You miss the /s at the end. There are some literal people around here /s

Privacy != Secrecy

He buys a pack of cigarettes for someone else, and happens to rack up a huge medical bill. The Insurance company might have a reason to disavow him? (Trump and disavow?)

He buys a 12 pack, and his kid steals it, and gets into an accident causing front page news. His kid lies, and says dad gave me the beer. (He is screwed.)

He goes onto physical therapy office. One of the legitimate places that, but sounds weird--like the power of hands--whatever. The wife sees the bill and it always stays in the back of her mind forever.

He buys a pressure cooker, and is suddenly profiled?

He pays out of packet for a CAT scan because he's a hypochondriac, and things he has a brain tumor. He is forced to claim he did have a CAT scan on all those pesky insurance forms. (Happened to me.)

Yea some of these are far fetched, but not being able to buy groceries last nights wasen't. My slick new chipped bank card was not recognized by the machine. I usually carry a c-note, but used it the following week because of bank card problems.

I guess the McCarty Era is not taught in school anymore?

So no--I don't want a paper trail either. Hell Safeway knows my diet better than me. (Yes--different card.)

The person who you replied to was speaking satirically.

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