Rate my startup: Invoice.ly - no bull* invoicing | Hacker News Reader

Rate my startup: Invoice.ly - no bull* invoicing

invoice.ly

37 pointsmiddayc45 comments

Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it. You can definitely get away with that line in many arenas now - if you are targeting the "indie"/liberal types it will hold sway (so long as you hold up to it!). However outside that it might put people off.

I'd work a little more on the app design; space it all out more and go for a "clean" look so that your screenshot can appear less busy (it draws the eye a little too much on the landing page).

The app itself is a little confusing (but looks a good start nonetheless).

First the colours are not to my personal taste; you have too many on the page for a start (stick with 3 colors and 5 shades if possible). More importantly they are all pastels - which becomes hard on the eye. I recommend spending some time on http://www.colourlovers.com and pick a palette with the proper ratio of bold/highlight/background colours

As to the app - it's a little difficult to navigate initially; it was a bit unintuitive adding "partners" especially as it is not clear what a partner is (this isn't typical terminology in most places - it sounds perhaps law centric?).

I quite like your landing page though; apart from the screenshot it is pretty solid. As pointed out you should clarify what mini means (possibly just scrap that terminology for the moment - I guess you plan to add paid-for plans later so you can always bring that in at a later stage). Maybe call it beta for now.

> Either say "no bullshit" properly or drop it.

Or, you know, say "BS Free invoicing".

hehe :) haven't thought of that. I also like the form of the sentence better than what I used.

I read that as "Free invoicing that's bullshit."

It's somewhat a joke "no bull*" and then a fox on the right. It might also have additional meanings :) bull invoicing vs fox invoicing

As I said to the paraschopra, this is sort of a test/joke and it will change according also to the feedback of people like you. So your comment is appreciated and will be part of the equation.

about app design. Thanks, we will try to improve it / make it less busy (although I don't like the Basecamp "template"). I want more focus on "effective" / aka gmail and similar apps. We will also iterate on color usage. Thanks for the link.

About "partners" , you notice a bug in screenshot that I missed. That is the old screenshot. App now uses term "Clients". I am fixing the screenshot imediatelly. THANKS!

About front page. You are right about mini, there will be not-mini :). I will try to make that part less consfusing.

Thanks a lot for very constructive feedback!

> About "partners" , you notice a bug in screenshot that I missed. That is the old screenshot. App now uses term "Clients". I am fixing the screenshot imediatelly. THANKS!

Ah, that makes more sense (the app still has the odd "partner" used in it btw)

Ah. Thanks for noticing.

Not-mini version will have send/received invoices and by so Clients and Suppliers. Is there any term that includes both of those? (We use partners here for it)

Screenshot is fixed. I made it over VNC to home computer where I have the gfx program :).

The text inside app will be fixed by tomorrow.

Thanks again!

A couple of points of feedback:

1. Your target market (small businesses) won't like (or understand) your tag line. Seriously, get rid of "no bull*". What does it mean anyway? It is not cool.

2. Your page is confusing and saying too many things. Your screenshot with so many values is frightening.

3. What is mini version? Is it a new terminology that I haven't heard of?

Hi,

1. First. I agree with you and I intended to iterate to more serious/assuring tag-line with time. I am sort of testing love/hate vs. indifference with it in a sense "let's see what happens". I certainly like it more than some typical tag-lines but I understand it might be bad idea to general public. Your feedback about this is certainly appreciated.

2. Huh. I tried to make a clear/minimal page, but I guess I didn't succeed that well. Do you have anything specific that is confusing. About screenshot, I like the (hopefully) "effective" looks of it in same way I like looks of gmail. I will further work on this. Thanks for bringing it out.

3. mini as in minimal :). I will think about more appropriate terms. I talk about "mini" version because there will also be "not-mini".

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

3. Basic/Starter are for example much more clear than mini.

Thanks. I will change it.

Um - I can think of loads of "web 2" invoicing sites blinksale, zoho, freshbooks, less accounting... the web is full of them. (e.g. http://freelanceswitch.com/money/7-online-invoicing-apps-for...). You could probably find 15-20 in about half an hour.

I'm sure you've spent a lot of time on this but seriously you are dreaming if you think this is going to make any money.

Yes, there are many invoicing apps out there. There is a thin line between being brave and being stupid :) . I am aware I am walking that line here.

It's no exaggeration to say that there are probably more invoicing apps than there are URL shorteners. Having run one for nearly two years, I can say that there are certain key differentiators that customers in this market are looking for. For starters, "simple" and "no bull*" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management. When it comes to financial applications, users are going to expect some level of sophistication. I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing.

To the OP if you're seriously committed, shoot me an email and I can give you some pointers that I've learned over the last 2 years.

>> For starters, "simple" and "no bull" do not have as strong a pull in invoicing as say in project management.
Thanks for the info.
>> I strongly advise the OP against leaning only in simplicity as a key differentiator, since TBH all 20+ competitors in the market could claim the same thing.

Thanks again. Yes, I can see that you are right. Our main* focus is "efficiency" (not claiming that it's a specially god focus, but it is our main) With this I mean speed & and focus on functionality/work-flow and less on decoration / packaging.

As for all webapps, simplicity is a very important factor to, but I can agree with you that it's not a good differentiator.

Invoice.ly doesn't have a goal to become a service accountant would use. But it has more in terms of what a SMB owner would use than invoicing. Invoice.ly is US adaptation of app I made for my (EU based) country. Besides "mini" that you can see there is also a "norm" which will offer a more rich set of features.

I'm definitely serious, where can I find your email? My is janko DOT itm AT gmail.

Hmmm, I have it in my profile, but I guess it's not displayed to the public. It's lwang at you-can-guess-the-rest.

You can easily make a profit in a crowded market, but you have to really stand out. That can mean a lot of things, from support to features to audience to design.

To the OP: no offense, but I don't see, from your site, any reason I would use your site over any of the other, better-designed, more established ones.

About your first scentence ~ I think so too.

Absolutely no offense taken. This is "let's get out" iteration (public release was this weekend). I believe we will produce reasons with future iterations :)

I have a hard time to find a good yet cheap alternative to Freshbooks that supports canadian taxes. So i think there's still a sweet spot for the Invoicing web apps that can support these kinds of edge cases.

By the way middayc, your app seems nice. I think you're right to show it early even if it's still not perfect.

One thing about the login validation : http://grab.by/4yIb . I got "Wrong input" error when my password was wrong. I think it would be better like "Invalid Email or Password".

One of initial beta testers is from Canada and I already promissed him version that will be adapted to Canada. From my understanding you have 2 levels of taxes (compounding?) and they must both be visible on invoice.

Yes. Although i don't know for other provinces, in Quebec we have the GST (5%) and the QST (7.5%). Here's how we calculate it:

total = 100$

GST = (total0.05)

QST = (total+GST)0.075

Grand Total = total+GST+QST

For the other provinces i think it depends but instead of QST they have an HST tax. But for your app i think it would be the same algorithm to support all provinces (someone please let me know if i'm wrong).

Thanks a LOT. Would you be interested in being a beta tester when I make the Canadian version?

Yes of course. You can send it to me via the contact form linked in my profile :)

In case the formula was not clear, i replaced the stars with x instead (HN use stars for italization and i can't edit my previous post):

total = 100$

GST = (total x 0.05)

QST = (total+GST) x 0.075

Grand Total = total+GST+QST

More infos : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_Canada

Just wanted to add, that I'm using the localised version for Slovenia, and that it is a great app!

I didn't take more than a cursory look, but do you handle other currencies?

No in this version not. But it is coming since a noticeable part of beta testers already need it.

Nice work and all the very best. I had a question for you...How did you start distributing your application for "beta" testing? Thanks!

I basically contacted any people I knew from US, or the ones I thought might know people from US. I am a part of few smaller programmer communities where we know each-other.

Hire or team up with a good graphic designer. If I had to choose between using this site and getballpark.com I think you know which one I would choose.

I suggest fixing the jagged edges on your logo.

Thanks :) I didn't notice them but now I do.

What? No OpenID support?

OpenID should be the first login system you implement. I would not sign up "yet another account".

I like OpenID but my fear is that only tech people use/know what OpenID is. I will think about this. Thanks for your feedback! :)

It's okay that you're not using OpenID. It's a pain in the ass to use. It's one of the reasons I don't like using StackOverflow, for instance.

I agree, even as a super technology addict, I find OpenID to be super annoying, and I even have a friend who use to be the OpenID advocate. Heaven forbid I should tell him that though :)

Please ignore this if you're building anything for regular people.

OpenID is confusing and painful to the end user, and you'll lose a significant fraction of your potential userbase if you don't let them sign up for an account with their familiar username/password.

There's only one OpenID site that's valuable enough to me to jump through the constant hoops required to setup & maintain an OpenID account, and that's StackOverflow. So unless your thing is obviously going to be more valuable to me than SO, you won't get my signup if you force me to use OpenID.

It's too bad you're using a .ly domain. The mere association with Libya, and the fact that you're dealing with invoicing, makes me very uncomfortable.

Not to mention that it's a pretty lame trend that's bound to be over soon, and then it'll just look out of touch.

Well. invoice.xy where xy is anything that makes the whole domain pronounceable is hard to find. So I thought it was a good catch. I am aware that something.ly is a trend that will be over yes.

Im not sure anyone will really make the association with Libya (I, for example, didn't know off hand that was where it was for).

I think you're right it is a current fad - and one that will end soon (all these fads are driven from the lack of available "good" domains I guess). But I am not sure it is a fatal choice; of course .ly is going to be lower performing than .com/.org/etc but I doubt by much - it also has the advantage of being quite "natural" to add/type.

Well, "it's just a name" :)

servers are in US and I am in EU if that makes you feel any better.

Whoa, the orange and blue clashes horribly on your sign up for free link.

You should also be spending your precious video time telling us why we should use your product rather than demonstrating the interface. Interface guides are for users who are already customers, not prospects.

I really execute not only generally like "release early" theories :).

Videos are simple and without music/speech for now since things are iterating and I will probably have to make new videos next week. So I want to keep this light and still there to demonstrate app to people without them signing in.

About the color-clash. I will change it and consult a designer here, although I must admit I don't see it :) must be my monitor, or my eyes :) Thanks!

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