The story of Heady Topper, Americas most loved craft beer | Hacker News Reader

The story of Heady Topper, Americas most loved craft beer

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51 pointsDangeranger63 comments

I've tried a Heddy Topper (it was offered to me in a restaurant in Burlington), I live near Goose Island, and I've consumed New Glarus in Wisconsin.

To me it's all about the scarcity. People waiting overnight for limited-edition brews, crossing state lines to buy exclusive brands...it adds this psychological value to the beer.

When you strip that away you're left with another 100+ IBU beer that my palate eventually can't take anymore.

Yeah, the obsession in America over IPAs really needs to end. I'm sure this is a good brew, but the vast majority of them seem to me to be an exercise in absurdity. Too high ABV and so bitter you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor.

I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it.

>Too high ABV and so bitter

You're describing "West Coast" style IPAs, "NE-style" (like Heady) are almost entirely different, and rarely bitter; Monkish famously had a "0 IBU" IPA

>you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor

What? IPA, especially DIPA is one of the most full-bodied styles available. Imperials can go into the ~10% category but a lot of IPAs are closer to ~5%.

>I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it.

I guess the argument could apply to adjunct stouts, but the flavors and aromas hops add to a beer aren't valid anymore? We've used them since the 9th century (granted not to IPA levels).

most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor

The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer.

Having spent a lot of time in Germany I can appreciate the pilsners, where the mistakes have nowhere to hide.

>The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer.

A common myth, the hardest part of a pils is maybe the decoction mash and having good water. IPAs and DIPAs are much more complex recipes requiring several steps post-fermentation, pils really just needs to be lagered.

Any commercial brewery will have solved sanitation and 90% of off-flavors, they don't brew IPA because they are easy, they do it because they sell.

https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/5dqvu0/doub...

What steps did you have in mind? It's been some time since I last made an IPA, but I don't remember it involving any more post-fermentation work than anything else I've made.

I think it is more like getting used to spice. In the 1980s it used to be often repeated in the US that Mexican, Thai, and Indian food was ridiculously spiced and that there was no flavor except peppers and that the only reason to eat these dishes was to prove that you could take it. But eventually a lot of even US people developed palettes used to spice and could appreciate that there is a reason these dishes have a lot of spice. It's the same with hops.

Meh. There's a difference between a complex flavor that happens to be spicy, and a mere heat bomb. Take a Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich, for example. That's a heat bomb. It's awful, but it's very spicy. Meanwhile, two of my favorite Indian restaurants in town (well, one Indian, and one Trinidad) can serve most of their dishes with zero peppers - no heat, just flavor. Peppers can be added all the way up to gut-melting levels, of course.

Beer is the same way. Complexity and bitterness are two different things, and you don't need a ton of bitterness to get the complexity.

I had no idea of the hype around this particular beer.

My friend in MA had some in his fridge, I cracked one open and it wasn't particularly life-changing - another hoppy IPA.

If you're into lagers check out Jack's Abby

Scarcity: persons at or approaching Social Security age can remember when Coors was a real big deal in the Eastern US. Those of us living in Colorado didn't really understand this, though some of us did get through a fair bit of Coors.

Thankfully we have wonderful documentary about it all:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076729

The amount of competition in the beer world is just incredible. (I just checked with a beer-enthusiast friend and he tried over 1000 different beers just in 2016.) To get people's attention and then to maintain a reputation as a great beer for several years, a beer has to be more than just an extreme example of a certain style. No doubt, though, the ambition to be interesting to aficionados of a given style does push certain beers towards the extreme. These beers are not bad, just niche in their appeal.

There is truth in what you say about the psychological value of scarce beers. However, being hard to acquire cuts both ways in a world of so many alternatives: the beer enthusiasts that I know are quick to dismiss a beer as not worth the effort after one sip.

Part of the problem is that you're in Chicago, and Heady Topper doesn't travel well.

Also, you already live in one of the country's three centers for Double IPA production. :)

The gist of my story was that I just placed Heddy Topper in that bin with all the other hops-bombs that really did nothing for me.

On a meta-level I was amused by the number of brewers and coffee roasters in Vermont, given the fact that neither hops nor coffee beans are grown anywhere even remotely local to the state. But hey, it's a hip thing to do right? 802ers gotta be who they are and that's cool.

There are several hop farms in Vermont, Addison being the largest probably. This article about the boon in hop farming there is almost six years old:

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/resurrecting-hops/Content...

Most of the US is in the wrong climate to grow coffee, do people drink it across the country just because it's "hip"?

An American craft brewery is a small, independent, and traditional brewery where small means a production of less than 6 million [US beer] barrels per year. [1] A US beer barrel seems to be 177.348 liters so that we get slightly more than 7 million hectoliters. The largest German brewery produced 5.5 million hectoliters in 2002. [2] So US small is German largest plus 25%? Or did I make a mistake, is there yet another barrel? In Germany you are considered a large brewery above 0.25 million hectoliters or 140,965 barrels.

Also the world beer production seems to be just shy of 2 billion hectoliters per year, so you can produce 0.35% of the world production and are still considered small? That would also limit the number of non-small breweries to 286.

[1] https://www.craftbeer.com/breweries/what-is-a-craft-brewery

[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Großbrauerei#Gr.C3.B6.C3.9Fte_...

Most of the issue there is that, due to tradition, the official definition keeps getting bumped up so Samuel Adams counts. (Most recently from 2 million to 6 million barrels)

More practically, I'd say to look at microbrewery limits, which are 15,000 barrels/year.

3 Floyd's Alpha King[1]... best IPA/Pale Ale ever. Let the flame war begin!!!

[1] https://www.3floyds.com/beer/alpha-king/?age_verification=e7...

practically an entirely different style in craft beer terms

I love Alpha King (and it's from my home state), but it's an American Pale Ale. Not the same as an (IPA) India Pale Ale, and certainly not the same as a double IPA.

What I found most compelling about the story wasn't the hype for Heady Topper, but the attitudes of the owners John and Jen Kimmich. They took a disaster and made the most out of it, and are now able to provide for 48 full time employees.

While the beer is great, their story of perseverance over adversity is what really matters here.

Heady Topper is a great beer, but make no mistake, the astronomical esteem for it stems not from its merits, but from its status as the progenitor of New England style (cloudy) IPAs.

False dichotomy, it really is just a great beer as well.

To your credit when it first hit the scene it stood out a lot more than it does now (there are three craft breweries in my area that release cans of NE-style IPA every month).

I agree that it's great, but being 8th on Beer Advocate (4th amongst hoppy beers) is to me too high.

I think it deserves it.

to the parent's credit there's just so much competition now that didn't exist when Heady rose to prominence (Other Half, Tree House, Veil, Trillium, Monkish, LICBP etc) that maybe it's time to share the spotlight

I live in Vermont and love the new brewery and Heady Topper, but OH MY GOODNESS their stout, Beezlebub, is The Chosen One. It is the perfect libation, absolutely without flaw. The brewery is over an hour a way and I will happily jump in the car in a moments notice just to fill my trunk with that delicious nectar.

The sales lines at the new brewery work incredibly efficiently and it was staggering to see how much money, mostly in cash, was being handed over every 20 seconds as the line moved forward. These folks are geniuses and I am happy to reward them.

If you like cheese and / or beer you owe to yourself to make a trip to Vermont and visit Waterbury and / or Burlington. Alchemist, Hill Farmstead, Lawson's Finest Liquids, Jasper Hill Farm, etc

And then dip down into Western Mass - lots of good beers here too even for non-IPA lovers like myself. If you want to try something a little different grab some Ginger Libation.

Agree that Heady Topper is the best. Love Pliny the Elder and Zombie Dust (which are almost as hard to get where I live) but Heady stands alone for me.

My favorite widely available IPA is Jai Alai. What is yours?

Spending the winter in south south Florida. The Jai Alai is good. Better than any of the other Florida IPA's I have come across.

I'm not sure how widely distributed it is, but if you're in Oregon, Breakside Flagship IPA is easy to find year round and quite good.

who? what?

Never heard of this on the west coast. You mean there is beer made east of the beerocracy states of Washington & Oregon? At least the hops must come from here, right :-)

I wish it was available around here, but the legally required liquor industry beer industry middlemen have too much power in what gets imported. In the Seattle area there are dozens of brewerys in the city, plus zillions in surrounding areas. There are so many it's virtually impossible to have visited all of them, much less heard of them.

Ohhhh man. You have no idea what you're missing out on. There is great beer all across the US. We get some beers from Washington and Oregon and California (Rouge and Stone come to mind immediately), but there are a ton of beers from the East Coast and the Great Lakes that are beyond fantastic. Check em out sometime!

The northeast is a beer mecca. You have great beer on the west coast but there is beer just as good if not better here. A lot of hop farms are in Pennsylvania and the New England states now.

Many states have great local beers these days. Here in the Twin Cities metro, we have some world-class beers that are as good as anything I've had... Surly Furious, Lift Bridge Farm Girl, Indeed LSD, Sidhe Greenman's Harvest, and the late great Harriet Divine Oculist (Harriet recently closed, sigh).

Whenever I'm traveling, I go out of my way to try the local beers, relying on recommendations from bartenders and local friends. It's always a great experience.

Some years ago, I was at a conference in San Francisco, attended by numerous Europeans. The vendor poured a lot of Anchor Steam beer into us. Some of the Europeans were shocked at how good it was. The only American beers they'd ever had were Bud and Miller Lite, and they thought American beer was awful, until they tried Anchor. I kept telling them we keep the best stuff for ourselves. In practice, that's true even of individual states.

If you like beer, New England is worth a tour.

http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2016/01/22/new-england-craft-b...

huge caveat: I haven't read the piece yet, but had to quickly respond to you. This is probably totally inside baseball for beer snobs. For me, Heady Topper is the beer that made me a beer snob. Never understood why anyone would ever stand in line to buy beer but sadly now I do.

The most interesting aspect of their story is that it seems to somewhat defy market gravity...they keep their prices pretty steady (very expensive), supply is limited, and demand keeps growing. I'm no historian or expert but I think they've been a market creator in this style of recipe (Lawsons, Hill Farmstead, Trillium, Fiddlehead, etc). That might be wildly inaccurate, so take it for what it's worth.

Again, haven't the read the piece but had to respond.

Think Pliny the Younger, but earlier in the hype cycle.

If it's as good as Pliny, I might go out of my way to get some!

Couple notes:

1) I don't know where you are, but it's best drunk fresh - I wouldn't recommend paying or trading a lot to get some if you're far away and can't be sure of the provenance (e.g. a month old can that has been improperly refrigerated is not going to be good)

2) It's "like" Pliny in that they are both hoppy double or triple IPAs but still different - Heady isn't filtered, so it doesn't have as clean of a mouthfeel (not necessarily good or bad; just different). You get a bit more of a piney vibe as well as more tropical fruit with Heady in my opinion.

The only time I've had it was flown in for a party. It was really lovely, though.

Sounds like the writer liked their beer a little too much to make a balanced piece. It is my understanding that from coast-to-coast, America's most beloved craft brewery is Dogfish Head, and that the most popular craft brewery (by sales volume) is Sam Adams.

I have never heard of Heady Topper, and I used to drink like a fish.

Then you need to go up to Vermont and give it a try.

Plus Waterbury is a beautiful town to visit as well.

It is astonishing how different the middle of Vermont is compared to the middle of New Hampshire. I grew up, and live, in New Hampshire, but took my first drive through to NY only a few short months ago, in late October, and now regret the delay. What a beautiful part of the country, I recommend it to anyone with a sense of aesthetics.

FWIW, I recently wrote up my Vermont hit list: https://seancoates.com/blogs/vermont/

Need to make a trip down there as soon as possible. I'm getting thirsty.

Heady Topper isn't sold outside of Vermont, so that is perhaps why you haven't.

I was able to purchase one when visiting there after learning the beer has a score of 100 on beeradvocate.com [1]

'Most loved' probably isn't the right wording :) 'Highest rated' probably would be better.

[1] https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/27039/16814/

>> Heady Topper isn't sold outside of Vermont

And yet it's "America's most loved"... Never heard of it myself.

Beer hype. I've no doubt someone's gone off the deep end to get their hands on some; people do a lot of stupid things on behalf of the cliques they aspire to. There just seems to be a lot of this when it involves crafty beer stuff.

>> Heady Topper isn't sold outside of Vermont

> And yet it's "America's most loved"... Never heard of it myself.

I would interpret this as, of those who identify themselves as enjoying good beers, Heady Topper might rank high among their favorites. The general American public does not enjoy quality beers /opinion.

>> general American public does not enjoy quality

Even in midwest Trump country where I live atm I have my choice of three excellent craft brewers inside a five mile radius, operating for years now, the places are packed full of "general Americans" every single time I visit. The "general American public" is driving a $22 billion+ craft brewing market and nearly every podunk cow town big enough to have a WalMart also has a "brewing company" now. Tilt your head forward so your snoot isn't so high in the atmosphere and maybe you'll be able to spot some actual "general Americans" as opposed to the knuckle dragging rice beer drinkers you decorate inside your mind.

I've been through all the brew pubs in the Boulder/Fort Collins "Front Range" area as well. Never heard anyone so much as mention "Heady Topper." The story is just hype. Someone buffing up the trademark for a sale maybe.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Alchemist will never be the most popular craft brewery by sales volume.

I think the author is basing that position on this: https://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/top/

Heady Topper is currently number 8 there with ~13k ratings and often leads many "Best of" lists.

Incidentally, Heady Topper is also credited with originating the New England IPA style, known for hazy appearance and emphasis on tropical hop flavors (think: mango and passionfruit). https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/new-england-ipa-...

and if you want a good sense of the effect the style has had on the industry, NYT has a great article:

11-Hour Lines for a New Ale? Fans Wait, Breweries Worry

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/dining/craft-breweries-li...

It's possible they're going by critical or crowdsourced ratings like Untappd or BeerAdvocate.

I think it was #1 on BA for quite a while, though surely Tree House has surely knocked them down a few pegs they haven't left the top 10 in quite some time.

Doubtful you'll see DFH and especially won't see SA (aside from their Utopias)

Sam Adams is not a craft brewery. I understand that term is subjective, but really truly not in this case. I wouldn't say Dogfish Head is either anymore.

There is a formal definition of what is or isn't a craft brewery from the Brewers Association.

A craft brewery makes less than 6 million barrels per year, less than 25% is owned or controlled by a non craft brewery, and the majority of their alcoholic drinks are beer.

Sam Adams and DFH both satisfy those requirements.

Okay, but no beer drinker would show up to a party saying they brought some craft brews and pull out some Boston Lager...

Indeed. "Craft beer" is basically a marketing term for Sam Adams now, rather than a production model.

It's not the only one. Here in Minnesota, I feel the same way about Summit and the various Schell's sub-labels. They may technically be "craft", but really, they're mass production beers with a smaller market than the giants.

How about Thirteenth Hour?

That might change with the Craft Beverage Modernization and Tax Reform Act

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sam-adams-is-about-to-be-ki...

The BA changed the definition in order to keep Sam Adams "craft."

http://beerpulse.com/2011/01/brewers-association-enacts-sam-...

The term "craft brewery" is defined by the industry group "the Brewers Association." It's not legally binding.

That group changed the definition of "craft brewery" from a brewery that produces less than 2 million bbl/year to one that produces less than 6 million bbl/year.

They made this change in 2011, as Sam Adams began to produce more than 2 million bbl/year.

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