Apple's Tim Cook: We really care about pro users | Hacker News Reader

Apple's Tim Cook: We really care about pro users

cnet.com

46 pointsgerosan64 comments

> "You will see us do more in the pro area. The pro area is very important to us. The creative area is very important to us in particular. Don't think that something we've done or something we're doing that isn't visible yet is a signal that our priorities are elsewhere. It's very, very important to us."

Cook has been hanging around with Trump too much, as he's actually starting to sound like him.

Haha, I hate to make a comment like this, but once you pointed it out, I can't read it without reading it in Trump's voice.

More on topic, I think Apple is already losing a lot of "pro" users just by not doing anything exciting with their MBPs and desktops. The current lineup is overpriced and under powered, and if I needed a new machine right now, I wouldn't go with Apple. Maybe that will change before I need to replace my 2013 MBP, but I'm not holding my breath.

To be fair there lineup has always been overpriced and under-powered from specs to price perspective.

Not always, at least from 2006-2010 there were few Windows laptops that were comparable on both specs and price (could get the specs for more, or the price with reduced specs). I stopped comparing them after that though, these days I'm inclined to agree but I'm pretty much sold on the platform thanks to a few pieces of software I don't want to give up yet.

Not if you consider size, battery life etc. part of the spec.

The Mac Mini was competitive in 2011/2012, especially if you let an authorised repair shop install a second drive on the cheap.

Nah, that's still a coherent thought which sticks to a central point. it's also 5 sentences instead of one long sentence that starts talking about pro users heads off on a jaunt about creating movies and finishes by saying how great the ratings for the apprentice were. I also assume cook was asked about pro users and answered, as opposed to being asked about pretty much anything else and just ranting.

oh and he didn't say anything about how is the "most pro user you have ever seen" or "cares more about pro users than anyone ever" or anything like that.

Any man who must say "I am the King", is no true King at all.

To quote the old storytelling maxim, "Show, don't tell".

Which is what Apple does: they are having to tell something because their practice is to only show when they are ready. They are getting enough pressure from impatient people that simply showing when ready is insufficient. Apple doesn’t do vapourware launches (for the most part).

This story is about Apple telling, not showing.

Which is what I said. Apple is having to tell because there are people, including investors, who are impatient enough to force Apple’s hand, which would be to show later this year.

...So they are not following the old storytelling maxim of "Show, don't tell". They are telling with no showing (yet).

Why is it so easy for everyone else to see an issue, and not any decision makers inside Apple.

Is it just too huge of a task to keep these machines updated, and Apple are deploying staff in other areas they see as more important?

I really can't think of a single good reason why they don't do a simple hardware refresh of the Mac Pro every year. It's the easiest thing in the world, and would fix about 80% of the frustration.

Apple just seems completely allergic to doing an upgrade without some major new design and a flashy rollout.

Because the concept of hardware specs is alien to most designers?

Why would people buy a new thing that performed better if it still looked the same?

What are you talking about? Apple has been doing exactly that since the iPhone 3GS pretty successfully.

The iPhone is the last Apple product I'd use to prove that point, given that they've tinkered with the exterior design every generation (and sometimes even within generations)?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/9/6125849/iphone-history-pict...

There's nothing Pro about new Macbook Pro, but I like it. I only write code so all I need is browser and terminal. I don't mind sacrificing some built-in battery life for an option to use external battery via USB-C. Overall I think it's pretty good for programming. That said, I don't care about the touch bar. It hasn't made my life substantially worse but I find it quite useless. I wish there was a 15" model without the touch bar.

But yeah, there's nothing Pro about Apple anymore.

Yes, no escape key and no function keys clearly demonstrates that the Macbook Pro is not a Pro laptop.

I'll believe it when I see it, but it's been trending for the last few years away from the pro users; I won't hold my breath.

If they really cared about pro users, then the mac pro would not have been sitting for years without a refresh.

Edit: accuracy

They missed April 1st by a month.

I know it is a wild dream but if they just made a lineup of motherboards it would be so awesome for people in the Workstation/HPC[1] space. Imagine being able to mount your 4X Teslas onto your shiny new Apple dual-Xeon motherboard. Oh, and RGB fans ;-)

[1](HPC = high performance computing)

I sincerely applaud your dream here, but 'wild' just isn't adequate. Having looked at setting up Hackintoshes, I can tell you Apple is nowhere near where it would need to be to enable/support an enthusiast market.

Nothing you describe hasn't already been done by others.

Too late. I'm back to a PC for my day-to-day dev and I don't plan on looking back.

I went back to a PC this past December after a 16 year, 4 apple laptop stint. But in another four years, I will check back in and maybe try it again. I'm not gonna disown them cause they didn't make the fenders flare out enough this year.

Lies. If they did, OS X window management wouldn't be in the shape it is in today.

Maybe it's just me. But this sounds like Trump.

Well he's hardly going to say they don't.

...then act like it? Update your desktop Macs, e.g.

This is a joke. The latest MacBook Pro redesign is an affront to pro users.

At our hardware/software startup the new MacBooks are unusable due to the limitations of the USB-C ports. Our engineers refuse to engage in the dongle shenanigans necessary to get these computers to work with the displays and the other peripherals necessary to do their jobs.

We just purchased several of the old MacBook Pros to make sure we have enough for new hires and interns arriving this summer.

Apple cares about Pros? Heh.

Your engineers are unwilling to use a dongle to connect to a monitor? Something that is so trivial to set up once and never deal with again sounds more like an attitude problem than a technical one.

"set up once and never deal with again ..."

maybe you bought a laptop that stays in the exact same position and location for the foreseeable future.

for those who use it in more than one place, it's more than a minor annoyance.

The monitor doesn't go anywhere. Just leave the dongle.

Yes, get a dongle for every possible monitor you'll ever connect to.

hey this sounds like a great way to increase revenue AND profit! thanks!!

i'm taking this nugget of an idea to Daddy Warren!!

Why not? You bought a cable for every monitor you'd ever connect to. The hdmi cable your monitor came with definitely didn't plug into your MBP from 2015.

They did used to have HDMI actually.

Damn it. I misread the spec sheet and thought they were lacking hdmi just like the Air.

While true it's beside the point that was made earlier on. The Parent complains about "dongles", but really it's not much different than having to plug a portable computer into all of the accessories that are there already, there's just something extra tacked on. It's not like other vendors and set ups are immune to this; my previous work place had a Dell contract and their desktops came with some stupid video card where there was only one out-put and the only way to get dual monitors was a Y splitter from Dell.

In custom setups, if your card isn't Dual [connection], you use an adapter for DVI or HDMI, and so on.

Apple does have a lot to answer for, and their idea of "dongle for everything" does get tiresome and Apple should be above that. But it's not like it's unique to Apple or even new in the computing world. This has been standard for a long time.

I used to work at a place with a Dell contract, and I had a laptop ...with a docking station.

I always pooh-poohed proprietary docking stations before I had one -- all the cables went to it, dock the computer, done. Best of all, it wasn't having plug something in where you need to set the computer down, then navigate something with one hand -- the dock felt nice and intuitive to set the laptop down upon with two hands, as if it was meant to be part of setting your computer down. Even worked flawlessly with my Linux install.

Sadly the E-series dock was not as intuitive -- I found it easier to manually plug in my headphones as the dock was a different sound device.

You know what? I don't want to have to buy or deal with dongles.

We have a number of standard interfaces that work well. I require those in my pro level machines.

And you know what? I get those in my pro level machines.

The reality is Apple doesn't make pro level machines. That's OK. Neither does Nintendo, Kraft, or Parker Brothers.

It's funny because there isn't a single non-standard interface on the new MBPs and the old ones had magsafe (apple only) and thunderbolt (might as well be apple only)

Cool, so you say it has USB 2/3, HDMI video, audio in/out, and Ethernet compatible with standard equipment, and without the need for dongles, that's awesome! I'll buy one tomorrow at the Apple store right after I confirm that you are telling the truth.

>Cool, so you say it has USB 2/3, HDMI video, audio in/out, and Ethernet compatible with standard equipment, and without the need for dongles, that's awesome!

What's this condescending bullshit for? Fuck's sake man, I never said it had it HDMI or ethernet (the audio situation hasn't changed) and if you had read this thread higher up you would see I was refuting someone who suggested they never had HDMI. They did, and now they don't. They haven't had ethernet since 2012 and for what it's worth they still do support USB 2 and 3, they just don't support those protocols over a type A connector, they support it over type C. Those dongles are standard (you don't have to buy Apple's) and can be had for $10 for a two pack: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AUKU1OO/?tag=thewire06-20&linkC... Adapters were much harder to find for the Thunderbolt 2 ports on the older MacBook Pro, you basically had to go with Apple for most things. Now you can buy the cheapest one Amazon will sell you and it should work.

But you know they don't have those ports, so I don't know what your deal is. I said all the I/O is now standard including the power connector. You can't say that of the older MacBook Pros much less any other PC laptop.

I completely agree, I was just correcting the parent. Using a 2016 15" MBP to write this myself ;)

Ummm... My 2015 MBP has an HDMI port... I use it every day.

Exactly what I was thinking... My very limited (one person) "technician" can set up 30... I don't know what the problem is.

This is complete nonsense and probably just made up. The previous MB Pro design required adapters for the VAST majority of all monitors. There's nothing new here.

If jonjenk is doing hardware development, I can sympathize. I'll attest that literally nothing in my current bench environment is USB-C compatible. Dev boards, JTAG debuggers, emulators, UART bridges, signal scopes, SoCs...all USB 2.0.

Maybe he's talking about stuff other than charging cables and monitors?

I would be shocked if most USB accessories didn't work with an adaptor. The old macbook only had two USB A ports anyway. I do hardware development and use a USB hub with my 2015 Macbook Pro. I'm guessing USB-C to to USB-A hubs exist and work well.

Don't be rational with your easy fix.

Yes, ditching physical compatibility with nearly every other connector currently in use, in exchange for a millimeter or two of thinness, is the rational option.

Connecting a USB hub to your half dozen peripherals is a lot more rational than expecting Apple to reintroduce USB-A connectors.

They exist, but if you read OP's statement "Our engineers refuse to engage in the dongle shenanigans" you can also see that they just didn't want to have more hubs to juggle in the course of their day.

In my limited experience, HDMI is the new VGA in terms of availability. Projectors, TVs, screens all support it (even if it can't drive 10-bit modes or the max refresh rate).

If you bring a HDMI-capable Mac to a client and something doesn't work, it's their fault. If you bring a USB-C Mac and forget the dongle, it feels like a faux pas on your end.

Though to be fair, it was an aberration that the last (fantastic!) rMBP had a useful video port. Historically, portable Macs always needed crappy adapters.

Err I have had my 15" rMBP and have never needed a dongle. It supports thunderbolt/displayport and HDMI. I can connect not only to multiple monitors easily without dongles, I can connect to TVs.

The all USB-C design of the new Pros is not very Pro friendly. It should be the base MacBook.

All our new developers are getting 2016 MacBook Pros with Touch Bar and there have been no issues of any kind that I know of so far.

I have a new MacBook with the matched external LG monitor Apple sells. I love the combination. The monitor has one USB-c port to connect/charge the laptop and 3 other USB-c ports, one of which I always keep the $10 dongle to convert to the old USB plug size.

I never think of charging my MacBook because two or theee times a day I plug into the external monitor to work and don't even think of charging anymore.

And like anyone who's lying, he finished his sentence with an unconvincing "Trust me."

Cook should know that pro users don't care about talk, we care about action. This comes across like a Trump speech ("nobody cares more about pro users than us, believe me")

> And like anyone who's lying

Please don't sling inflammatory accusations without evidence—it degrades discussion. Your being unconvinced is not evidence.

Totally agree on the comparison to Trump. Thought this for a while and never said it. Interesting see the same. Listen to an earnings call.

But the biggest was when TC went on CNBC Cramer and insisted China was going great to find out China was a disaster.

The other was during quiet time he ended up taking a tour of the trading floor right next to were CNBC was broadcasting live. They were like Tim why are here? He said he was talking a tour with his nephew.

Tim went on and on how the AirPods are the biggest product Apple has ever had.

Bigly

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