Optimizing a laptop purchase? | Hacker News Reader

Optimizing a laptop purchase?

13 pointssanj25 comments

Last night my laptop's wireless card appeared to have died. After some diagnosis, it turns out to be the entire PC card infrastructure. Not a good sign for my primary development machine.

So now I am in the market for a new machine.

While pondering my purchase, I realized I had strong opinions of what mattered and what didn't, of where it made sense to spend my very limited startup budget.

I will list my criteria below and am interested in how others optimize their decisions.

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Let me start by saying I use Macs, which shortens my set of options.

I write web server-side code. This means I run a web server, db and multiple browsers. I don't use an IDE. I need raw processing horsepower.

Paying for incremental processor speed is a waste of money. Get the slowest current generation processor you can. Paying for an extra 10-20 percent is a mistake.

RAM is king as modern OSs use it efficiently. Mysql can suck its datafiles into memory. Never forget RAM is 1000000x faster than disk.

Max it. 2G is a minimum. 4G is good. A soon as I can cram 16G into a machine, I'll try.

I could care less about the graphics subsystem. If I could buy a low power version of last years card, I would.

A fast drive is nice, but the money is better spent on more RAM. I don't think 5400 vs 7200 is enough. And you lose battery life.

Many of my criteria are designed to maximize my battery life. I love working untethered.

If I could, I would buy a machine that could use multiple batteries, like the old wallstreets and pismos. As is, a removeable battery is critical for long flights. Sorry Air.

The air travel point may be moot becauae the TSA does't want us carrying extra batteries.

Bus speed matters when it impacts RAM usage. I don't understand this well enough and so cargo cult myself into buying the Pro machines. If someone can convince me otherwise, I would love to save $1000 and get a consumer MacBook.

It had to be able to plug into a gigantic monitor when I am deskbound.

I used to want a PC card slot. I would jam in big memory card and use that as a external drive for DB files. Voila! Cheap SSD!

I with removeable media drives were themselves removeable. I use writeable DVDs for long term backups, but do not need the drive 95 percent of the time.

Finally, the most pixels I can carry and fit on my lap. I am a little guy. The 17" is too big to carry or fit. The weight of just over 5 lbs is what I have gotten used to and can tolerate.

I dont have any problems when flying and carrying an extra battery for my Macbook Pro. I keep it in my bag, the TSA hasn't said anything yet. Though if i carried 12 extra batteries, they might say something.

The 5400rpm vs 7200rpm makes a difference. Not as much as working in the ram instead of swapping, but there is a difference in performance. Whether you need it or not is another story. Though maxing your ram out is always a good thing to do regardless.

There isn't much of a difference from 2.4 to 2.5 or 2.6GHz, though there is a huge one from 2.1GHz (Base Macbook) to 2.6GHz (BTO Macbook Pro). That makes a huge difference. Even 'only' 10% more is huge when it comes down to rendering or compiling things. The less time you have to sit around waiting for it to render/load/compile, the more time you can spend doing work or the quicker you can get your work done.

Is it the jump from 2.1GHz to 2.6GHz that makes the difference? Or something else?

Kinda. They're both Santa Rosa platform with an 800MHz bus and take the same speed ram (667MHz DDR2 SODIMM). They've got different amounts of L2 cache though, 3MB on the Macbook vs 4MB on the Macbook Pro which helps a bit.

One reason to not get the slowest current generation processor is that not all Core 2 Duo's support the new virtualization instructions. If you're a cross platform developer using virtual machines a lot, the extra 10-20% cost for a faster Core 2 might be worth it.

I 90% agree, sanj, except I think the 5400 vs. 7200 is a big deal--that's a 33% improvement on most IO bound activities for cheap money. I generally plug the laptop in, so battery life isn't much of an issue.

Also, my current memory usage on my MBP never exceeds 1.4 gigs, so I couldn't justify the extra ram--it would sit, idle. I mainly develop in rails at the moment and sometimes use netbeans. YMMV.

Stop agonizing--Get the MacBook. I love mine.

Add 4gb ram and firewire raid: developers dream.

It's got everything you want.

It's more durable than the MBP, but the number one reason the MB beats out the MBP? It won't toast your lap.

I have a MBP and leave it on my lap all the time. It does get warm, but never uncomfortable. If you are just surfing the web, working in textmate, running a webserver and/or a db it will stay pretty cool. If you decide to play some games or render some movies you should probably find a desk for best results.

what temperature does the MBP reach (in F)? I have a PowerBook and it gets to 145 F and I think that is too hot.

I'm interested in how hot MBAs and MBs get as I too am in the market for a new mac laptop.

My 1st generation MacBook Pro was definitely too hot to use on one's lap. But, I've seen reviews that said the 2nd generation one ran a lot cooler (due to the 65nm Merym Intel chip), and now the latest generation is said to run even cooler than that, due to the cooler, 45nm Penryn chip.

Also, it's worth noting that all of Apple's laptops run extremely cool to the touch when the fans are running. If it's an issue for you, you can download smcFanControl (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/23049) and manually turn up your fan speed a bit. This will make even the MBPro _cold_ to the touch.

Off topic a bit, but conversely, I opened up my MBP and reapplied the thermal paste on the processors. It was a mess when I first opened it up, and that was causing the heatsink to not accurately pick up temperatures, ultimately causing the fans to never turn on. I was hesitant to use a software solution when it was a hardware issue.

Then again, it was risky because if the MBP didn't boot after I reapplied the thermal paste, I would have a very expensive paper weight on my hands!

My new MBP is remarkably cool. My 2-year-old MBP could fry an egg. Things change.

The only thing that would stop me from getting a MB over a MBP is the screen. The "new" MBP LED-backlit screens are amazing!. So clear and bright. The MB glossy screens definitely leave something to be desired. They aren't terrible by any means, but in comparison they just suck. If they fix the MB screens then its basically a no brainer. Put 4GB of ram in the thing and be done with it.

I'm running an old 1stgen alu-Powerbook. It works well enough that I can't possibly justify buying a new one. I'll probably get the Macbook as its pretty cheap when you get the entry level one (especially with the student discount, which I am). I'll surely put 4GB of ram in it though. With that $1000 I save on the macbook pro, I can get 2 months rent, 2 months groceries, a track bike + 1 month rent, a nearly complete climbing kit, a new surfboard and a track bike. I guess you should look at what You'd spend that $1000 on. If you'd spend it on really great things, get the macbook. If not, get the macbook pro for its wonderful screen and fasterness.

You are so right.

The missing LED screen is the only thing that keeps me from buying a new macbook today. I am sure apple is going to streamline its production and sooner or later also the macbooks will come with a LED backlit screen. The air already has the 13 inch screen. So its only a tiny step until also the macbooks get it.

You're not wrong. The real cost of things isn't so related to your bank balance, it's more relative to your current needs.

I see a lot of comments from those preferring Macs.

As much as I respect that, a lot of people reading this site are bootstrapping startups and I'd never be able to recommend going that route unless you need to use Mac-forte apps (or are developing for it).

If you're strapped for cash, you can get some solid, powerful equipment by looking through sites like NewEgg for "recertified" laptops with stellar ratings.

They won't have the style and the fashion of the Macs, nor do they often come with a 'nix by default, but they're dirt cheap (like ~$520 for a full modern laptop).

Get the job done and avoid the splurging.

No one can deny that there is a lot of truth in what you write. If battery life is not among the critical requirements, any laptop will do the job.

According to my experience the power management of linux is one of the severe shortcomings of that os (although I have tried only suse, scientific linux and fedora).

Not so much optimise as prioritise. I don't think I have ever found an optimal solution.

My most recent laptop purchase had to allow me to carry it as part of my single item of hand baggage on Europe's low cost airlines - together with enough clothing and other personal stuff to last me a week - a tall order.

Thus weight was a severe limiting factor - but there was no point in having a machine that could not run my development tools and their supporting databases, internet servers etc.

So (as I said) weight was a fixed limit, I then prioritised screen resolution, RAM and finally processing power.

I have one more idea to put in.

As a developer I always liked to have a slow machine. That makes sure you optimize your software and the user experience will be great.

This also means that you can live with the cheaper consumer lines. While my first mac was a iBook (blueberry), I bought powerbooks ever since. But I was never as happy with the powerbooks as I was with the iBook (except the Pismo perhaps - that was indeed the greatest machine ever). Currently I use a Titanium Powerbook with 1 GHz.

My next purchase will be a Macbook, no doubt. Battery life is critical and also durability and finally weight. If you are on a budget, the macbooks also give you more security: if one breaks down, you can buy a second one (apples repair times are longer thana busy deveolper can afford to wait). Two macbooks are cheaper than one pro.

I agree. I had an iBook and then a PowerBook which I still use. I have never been as happy the PB as I was with the iBook. Weight, battery, heat.

... fan noise

I am happy with my Dell + Ubuntu. Be sure to get one of the discount codes floating around the net if you go that route - they're worth something like $200.

http://www.notebookreview.com/dellCoupon.asp

You'll find a good deal of Dell coupons there. They change regularly too, so if what you're looking for isn't there now, it might be soon.

As a hard core web developer (who likes to visit local coffeeshops and travel), I had similar needs: loads of RAM, lots of pixels, big battery, etc.

I ended up getting a 17" MBP. Love it. The super high resolution variation, 1920x1200. The resolution is great for coding/development. The battery is good enough that I normally head out for coffeeshops without the charger.

The weight made my really nervous, my first "real" laptop was heavy and I swore never to get a big laptop again. This laptop isn't bad, I slide it into my laptop backpack and hop around town without a problem.

Spend some time down at a local Apple store. That helped me finally seal the deal.

For a PC laptop its simple: Get 1 GB or more of memory and a dual core processor. Everything else is up to your personal preference/needs.

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