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Comment by eddieroger | Hacker News Reader

Same. I had an issue with a failed charger many years ago, and in addition to getting a new charger, I was contacted by their product safety group for more information on how it was used to make it stronger in the future. Confirmed, they take product safety seriously.

> In fact it could be happening to your battery right now.

Yes, any lithium battery in any device could have this problem. Odds are good that it was swelling before it finally failed, and if the machine hadn't been restarted and instead had been checked, that may have been identified. Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?

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I had the exact opposite experience, I went in to a store with a MacBook Pro (2013) which had morphed by a good 1-2cm's due to the battery expanding over the course of the previous hour. They refused to take it and insisted I book a genius appointment for the following week.

After much insisting (30-40minutes) they finally agreed to take the battery and keep it in their safe for a week, until the first available genius appointment was available. There they said it was out of warranty as its a disposable part and therefore not covered by the AppleCare+ plan I had at the time. Genuinely it was the worst experience I've had in an apple store to date.

You might have countered with I understand it isn't covered by AppleCare. I suppose we'll found out if it's covered by Apple liability.

But then we couldn't have snarky internet posts about how terrible Apple is!

True but we'd get snarky internet posts about the cleverness of their in-house legal defense team.

"most valuable company on Earth sues man whose testicles they burned off" is about the worst PR possible

It's unfortunate that this was the experience you had. I imagine whomever you talked to was under the impression that hardware can't be taken that isn't accepted as part of a Genius Bar appointment, and didn't know the severity of what could happen would the battery fail. A training failure on Apple's part. That said, my cousin took a similar era MacBook to the Apple Store for swelling, and was able to see a Genius that afternoon and got a battery swap.

Back in the day, I had a removable white polycarb macbook battery swell. Brought it in and they gave me a quick swap (no charge). I was pretty happy. I wonder how much the extra work dealing with internal batteries cost a company.

But the battery is covered (had it swapped out on the retina mbpro (2013) and mb air (2012)). That's one of the main reasons to get Applecare. You can at least swap out the battery once for free before the three years is up. I even forgot to tell them and they did it for me anyway. Sounds like they were just shirking their responsibilities in your case.

I have found that it really seems to vary by country. In Japan, my mbp's battery was covered when it needed to be replaced after 2 years and an half but in China they told me that it wasn't covered.

You drove around with a battery swollen by 1-2 cm? I'm equally shocked that the Apple store didn't evacuate the area when you brought the laptop to their counter. That is some serious swelling.

> Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?

There was a huge amount of attention, which included the things being banned on aircraft, for Samsung's fire-prone phones. Before that, it was "hoverboards." I think the answer is yes, it would.

All popular devices will have a few that have this happen of the lifetime of the device. The Note 7 and hoverboards were exploding at a rate far higher than should be expected -- that was the news. For example, there was a video of an Inspiron exploding a few weeks ago that new made its way to HN (that I saw).

EgyptAir is investigating if a phone or tablet may have led to a crash of one of their jets:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/pilots-phone-tabl...

There have been many devices that have come under scrutiny for their Li-Ion cells. At least few devices explode, and I'm not aware of any killing people, but many have had these meltdowns.

Big Clive successfully took one apart without it going boomb if anyone is interested in what's inside of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI1eRy0uBI8

A few aircraft incidents/accidents were caused by batteries.

There is of course the 787 of All Nippon Airway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_...

And with battery as a cargo this time, there is a UPS 747: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6

It's funny/terrifying how we deeply need higher capacity batteries, with shorter charging time and greater energy density, but as a same time, it will probably lead to more unstable and more "prone to burst into flames" items...

I had a charger with cords that frayed quickly, but was slightly out of warranty. Not only were the people at the Apple store not concerned, they insisted it was entirely my fault, and were very rude to me. Then when I called and complained the manager said they'd give me a free replacement. Then, when I returned, it was a repeat of the first time - they blamed it on me, were not interested at all in my explanation of ow the charger was damaged, and were very rude.

> Confirmed, they take product safety seriously

Technically all that really confirms is that they take the PR/image aspect of safety seriously. May have been more a CYA than anything else. Yes, cynical view, I know.

In 2016, I called Apple about a 2011 Macbook Air (purchased with AppleCare, expired in 2014) about its bulging battery.

After a short conversation with a tier-2 support person, they agreed to replace the battery for free. They were also willing to replace the keyboard and bottom case, if there were any permanent deformations (there weren't). I took it in to my local Apple Store and they had it back to me in 48 hours.

I'm sure this is a YMMV issue, so the best lesson is perhaps to call several times until you get a good answer.

You can't just open a Mac though and have a look, they use proprietary screws and it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE!

> it's unreasonable to assume that anyone would think before reading this article that their laptop could completely EXPLODE!

Then they really haven't been paying attention, batteries exploding is mentioned regularly in media, makes for very popular Youtube videos, ...

It's understandable that people don't expect it happening to them (it's fairly unlikely).

> Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?

No, but then Apple often invites it by continuing to claim it's s#1t doesn't stink.

>> If you have a MacBook be careful leaving it unattended on the bed.

Beautiful line here.

> Would this article be getting the same traction if it wasn't a MacBook?

This.

I run across this all the time with (insert item that uses lithium batteries here). People ask "can't those things explode?!" Well, yeah, if it's got a lithium battery it can.

That's why you buy batteries from reputable sources (or items with integrated batteries from reputable sources), don't charge them unattended, and be aware of anything getting warm or expanding.

>>don't charge them unattended

I really hope this is a joke, because I can't imagine having to watch over anything while charging it. I'm sure that almost everyone charges their phone and laptop when sleeping for instance.

Unfortunately, no joke.

Minimally, do not charge things in a bed or covered by a blanket.

That's ridiculous. My 2015 MacBook gets warm/hot as a matter of course during the normal use of software. How am I supposed to know whether it is a precursor to an explosion or just normal usage?

Apparently there is no way to know, and it is a matter of luck whether your <insert lithium charged device here> explodes.

As a society why are we selling these things (not just apple) that can explode during normal usage. If a car manufacturer had an equivalent such design, the manufacturer would recall and fix said problem for free.

And yes, if there is no "fix" then they should not sell this technology at all. I suspect that the tech-industry lobbyists would not agree.

And yes, if there is no "fix" then they should not sell this technology at all.

I suspect when you see the impact on battery life or weight you might change your mind.

Cars do catch fire during normal use. It's not common, but it does happen. So it's not like it's some hard and fast rule that the risk must be zero. It's a matter of what we consider acceptable given the downsides.

Yes I am well aware of the benefits of Lithium tech, and I agree that the alternative is not attractive, however your analogy is flawed.

Most people (adults) understand they are dealing with a controlled explosion (the engine), and the adult is always (presumably) monitoring the car whilst the engine is on. "Adult" and continually "monitoring" are the keywords here.

The difference is that these things are consumer items that my little son plays with.

You're kidding right. I was just at a gas station the other day where a guy REFUELLED HIS RUNNING CAR. He even left it unattended to walk into the store! I think you overestimate the average persons understanding of automotive fire hazard.

we can do only so much.... :)

Too much soda can kill you - should we keep selling soda? If you eat too many apple seeds, the arsenic in them could kill you - do we need to get rid of apples?

Lithium batteries can explode, but the data captured shows that it happens rarely, and when it doesn't, like with the Samsung batteries, we talk about it. This is one incident. It's not widespread exploding MacBooks.

The way to know if you're facing a problem is to check for bulges. Under normal circumstances, where the machine is properly ventilated (clear ducts, not under a comforter), then statistically safe.

This is not a case of "too much ..." can kill you.

This is the tech industry taking shortcuts (not singling out apple here) in order to "push the industry" forward - There are a multitude of ways in which this risk could be eliminated, but without tight(er) regulation, it wont happen.

Even though the risk is slim, the severity is high. And due to to the "consumer" target market, these risks should be engineered away. We should not wait until some kid looses their sight. Even one. Simple as that.

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