Ask HN: I quit my job. Need advice

My advice (which I'm sure some others will disagree with) is this:

Don't look to your job for any kind of fulfillment or satisfaction, unless your job is your own company and you're doing something you're passionate about. Otherwise, be a complete mercenary and treat your job as nothing more than a way to keep the rent paid, the lights on, and food on the table. Then find ways to achieve fulfillment or whatever it is you're looking for, outside of work.

Maybe that means volunteering at a soup kitchen, maybe it means working on a startup as a side project, or maybe it means playing video games every hour you're not at work. Whatever, it's up to you. The point is, take control of finding whatever meaning it is you want to find in life, and don't let it be all commingled with your job.

Ultimately you may decide you don't even want a "normal job" at all. Maybe you will decide to freelance. Maybe you're meant to be an entrepreneur and run some kind of business, or possibly multiple businesses. Maybe you want to go all Tim Ferris "four hour work week" and move to Thailand or something. One thing that will help you maintain maximum flexibility is to avoid things like a mortgage payment, car payment, etc. If you already have those things then you'll have to deal with them, but if you don't, consider not buying a new car, or a house, etc. until you have things figured out. It'll be easier to up and move, or make other dramatic changes without those encumbrances.

Some people will say to choose startups over a big MNC, but I find that startups can be worse in many ways (again, unless it's your own startup). Work hours may be more demanding, there may be more stress, etc... OTOH, if you accept my position about being very mercenary towards work, you can often find a boring position at a stodgy large company, where you can "punch the clock" for pretty much exactly 40 hours a week, do relatively boring / undemanding work, get paid a decent salary, and - most importantly - reserve as much of your energy (mental, psychic, spiritual, or whatever you want to call it) for your own initiatives outside of work.

This is good advice I think, being as programming wasn't really a passion of mine; just something I got into when I had to grow up quick, and it worked out well.

Once I started and got past the imposter part of it all I went to startups, where they drained all my energy from myself and my family, just as you suggest.

Now I'm somewhere that requires very little of me technically, where I can work pretty much JUST 40 hours and get by and make everyone happy.

I still struggle with trying to make more out of it than I really need to.

I still struggle with wanting to do something totally different, way outside of computers. I feel like I've "conquered" this already. (I know, that's really shallow).

Amen.

And, if you are engaging in one or another form of workaholism (until "someday", "it will pay off", to avoid the crazy/upsetting at home, etc.), ending this is priority number one.

The basis of your health is a good personal life, whatever that means for you.

For some people, it genuinely is their work. I don't mean to discount that. But if you're working for "someday", rather than loving the moment you are in, well then, make sure you get out of there at a decent hour and find some moments you do love.

Well said :) wonder how I missed replying to you. Yeah,I do not wish to be a workaholic.Rather would love to have a balance in my Life.

Nice take on the job aspect of work life.:) Yeah, sometimes its hard to think of oneself as a complete mercenary. :(

But there is another aspect too, like if we can plan and buy some financial freedom we can pursue other creative fulfilling stuff.

I think this problem exists across ages unfortunately.

I currently have a car which shouldnt be difficult to let go.. after all its my inner freedom that i crave for.

I think you're right, but I also think it's a shame. Large companies produce most of the things making up our modern world. I'd rather these things be built with passion than as a side-effect of people trying to make money.

Agreed. I wish things were different, but this is my cynical / pragmatic approach to things, gained over many years working in Corporate America. And to be fair, I'm sure there are exceptions where you can work for a big company and find that kind of fulfillment. But I wouldn't go in expecting it.

I think it's a pure fantasy that most people can be passionate about their jobs.

True, passion may not be everything - there are aspects of work which are the boring and mundane. But mastery is another goal. In our tech industry, before you hit mastery the next big thing catches on..and before you know it everyone is running after it.

I really like the approach of some companies which evaluate their tech stack and only transition to other technologies in a phased manner.

I agree about your assesment of programming jobs. We are mostly replaceable cogs and means to an end. We're only getting paid so much because this job is so unpleasant and most people would rather make 2-3x less than learn to program and spend most of their life sitting in front of a screen going through code bases.

My personal answer to that was to start learning to draw. Getting from zero art skills to professional artist is a super-long journey (at least 5-10 years from what I'm reading), but at least it gives me hope.

I agree with the replaceable cog thing.

I really don't think that has to do with pay though.

It pays so well because everyone needs a technologist, in every industry, in every department, in every building. It's "in".

Now, if it's truly unpleasant - there's a major problem there. Usually somewhere else, another way, perhaps another industry (same line of work) can solve that problem.

Very true - we are treated like a replaceable cog. We all have a craving to feel important. But i think i personally dislike the language in the industry - resource. I am a human being for god's sake not a 'resource'. I have feelings and emotions and i wanna feel like a human,not a number. Also, i noticed non-tech people seem to be into management - they simply dont understand software. This causes part of the frustration. They seem to think, you can replace one person with another and the machinery would work fine - it wont. on top of it, they are the one planning unreasonable timelines too.

Resource/resourcing seems to be verbiage employed in corporate circles in general, and yeah, it makes me wince.

Practically every non-technologist that I know is baffled that I don't want to go into management. There are exceptions - as I work in finance, I get to talk to many analysts and portfolio managers. Everyone else though...it seems like if you view being a technologist as anything other than a means to an end - the end being some form of management - you lack ambition or are content to be a grunt.

About 7 years ago, I had a technology job that was sucking the life out of me. I started to push back and they fired me. This was good because I could get unemployment.

I spent 6 months on unemployment looking for jobs that I would care about and something that would let me lead a less stressful life.

After the unemployment ran out I started working at a Starbucks.

This was a life saver.

It was fast paced. They were always changing some process. It taught me to be flexible and roll with whatever. I got to talk with customers everyday. I could be making coffee and look down the whole line of people, out the door, and know each and every drink to make. I worked hard, but it was fun.

A customer that I would see daily offered me a job after a year at Starbucks. I still have this job. It has allowed me to move to a happier state where I live on a lake and life isn't so faced paced.

Nice to know :) At the end of the day you should feel happy. Only then you will be a happy dad / happy son / happy neighbour / a happy member of the society. which is very important in the larger scheme of things. :)

Do something completely different, and start immediately. Maybe it's working in a coffee shop, maybe it's laboring on a farm, maybe it's teaching a pottery class or bagging groceries. But it's something that provides some amount of income, and it provides you a needed break from development.

I promise you'll think more clearly about it once you've done this. Don't plan your next step after this second one (the first being, y'know, quitting). After step two, step three will come to you.

well said, i too wanna take it one step at a time.Hope the universe takes care of me.

Hey great job and congratulations on making the leap! Sometimes it can be hard and scary to know what the right path is, but usually the first step is making a change to get off of the wrong path. Step 1 complete!

I'd consider taking a short break from programming if I were you. Why not get a temporary job as a river guide or something outdoors? Maybe go on a long backpacking trip or do some other kind of adventure. After getting crushed by years of corporate culture, I'm sure your soul could use a little fun and adventure to reinvigorate and recharge itself! In my experience, (I'm a software engineer engineer) the perspective gained from taking a temporary break and trying something completely different (that maybe puts you a little out of your comfort zone) can drastically improve overall confidence/happiness/wellbeing much more than any minor resume addition. Take a moment to emotionally regroup before you charge back into career life!

Seek adventure!

Very well said and thank you. Yes, i am thinking on those lines too. need some breather time. Cant keep running all life. :)

> any guidance on how to design my career and work life...

You might find of interest this recent book on Designing Your Life by two Stanford professors-

Here's a podcast interview with the authors, to give you a flavor of what it's about > http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-10-03/using-design-th...

Also, NY Times review > https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/fashion/design-thinking-s...

And - Goodreads reviews here > http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26046333-designing-your-l...

Thanks for sharing the book.. Looks interesting.. shall check it out..:)

Job and other tips I learned the hard way (still making some mistakes):

Rule #1: Negotiate from a position of strength.

Fact #1: We tend to negotiate badly when we are desperate. Human nature.

Fact #2: Desperation is a state of mind. You can really be in dire circumstances but keep a calm mind. This can be learned. I know stoic folks who are cool as ice when negotiating at the precipice of existence! Super men! (This is where I fail many times.)

Fact #3: (Certainly my experience) When we quit one job summarily without alternative options already lined up, we are likely to create a desperate mindset. It creeps into our attitude and plants the seeds for exploitation. Avoid this as a rule no matter how shitty things get. Plan B first, then quit.

My advice to you is find another job but don't expect it to be better. Plan your Plan B while there.

Best of luck, bro/sis. Employers can be ruthless sometimes.

I would take some time during the next job seeking stage to do stuff I like. Travel? Perspective comes with distance.

Woah Bro! :) That was awesome advice. I am aware of the desperation that sets in when we don't have a plan B. But I am resisting such a state of mind. I believe sometimes when you let go, your mind calms down and starts facing the facts.

Same here, would love to travel and take a break. :) For now as you have said, would take up another job and start planning my exit from the rat race. :) Hope I will get my ticket soon :)

Won't you be serving notice period for 2 months? For the satisfaction you are looking for, it will come from deep knowledge of a specific topic. If you are say interested in Data Analytics look for companies in data analytics, read their job description and skill set they require. Approach them (works best if you know someone to refer you) demonstrate the skills you have through some project. The project need not be perfect but should reflect the maturity of its age.

Yes I have notice period but i might leave earlier (still unsure). Exactly, interview screening is broken and the best way currently seems to be through referrals.

Indeed I would like to have deep knowledge on a subject. I am learning and working on some topics of interest. As u have suggested will try to build and showcase some projects. :)

get into some online class now that you have the time.

start putting your resume out as soon as you can. start finding a away to cut expenses and build more runway next time.

maybe look into something closer and/or a startup which is more fires and chaos at 75% of the pay but has an easier line of sight to "changing the world"

> start putting your resume out as soon as you can

i feel the interview process is broken too. this causes me pain just to think about it. but then we all face the same situation so i ll put up with it and as you suggested gotta take classes and make myself more relevant.

Python is a great language, but three months isn't much time to become proficient and find work. You'll need to hit it hard. One way to build your resume would be to find a Python-based project on github, and submit a bug fix. Good luck!

A good way to prove yourself are hackatons and programming contests. Why? because you have a clear deadline not set by you.

Hope this helps

Thanks for your advice :) Yes, 3 months would be less, but gotta move into python.. working on it now:)

Thanks to all of you for taking your time off to advice. I really appreciate it. I hope things would turn out to be ok.

Please keep in touch.