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Comment by jbyers | Hacker News Reader

Five years ago many handsets were obsolete they day you bought them. I'll take fragmentation over slow progress any day. And I did for a year and a half.

In October 2008 I got a Google G1 the day it came out, replacing a tired Blackberry. This phone is the poster child for Android fragmentation, running a now-ancient version of the OS. But I could run most apps, and despite its relatively slow speed and limited non-SD memory, I believe it was the best alternative to an iPhone at the time.

Thanks to Google my new phone is an HTC Evo 4G. Same apps, same basic OS experience, only with the performance and phone features that make a G1 look like a toy. This is the platform I want: innovation as fast as possible on hardware and software at the same time. HTC is keeping up just fine and I'm betting developers will too.

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Yes, but an iPhone 2G could reasonably run all apps except for a few hardware features not present (MMS, GPS, OpenGL ES 2.0, video camera) because it received all OS updates. And until iPhone OS 4.0 comes out that effectively end-of-lifes the 2G, one could be reasonably happy with the post-sale support of the original iPhone with two years of major upgrades, three including security/bug updates.

The thing that scares me off the Android platform is the OS fragmentation. The sheer fact that I have to hack my device to upgrade it mind-boggles me. The fact that the G1 is not receiving what is becoming the greatest OS upgrade for the Android a mere 1.5 years after release is discouraging beyond the least.

Most users don't know what OS version they are running or care. Those that do can "hack" it (feels wrong to call installing an OS hacking).

I have heard of (not actually experienced as I do not have an Android phone) programs on the Android Market stating "You must have Android 2.0+ to run" or "Does not work on XXXXXX device with 1.5, but we're working on support!" While most users don't care, developers do. Because Apple offers the upgrades free through iTunes ("New update! Click here!"), the number of upgraded iPhones 2Gs with 3.0 (opposed to the 1.0) nears 100%. Thus most developers can just build against the latest OS, get to use the new APIs, and be okay.

However, I do admit the loss of the 2G upgrade changes things a bit, and I would like to see how Apple handles it. The easiest answer is that the App Store allows one to select devices that are incompatible with certain builds, however I would love to see a universal binary situation supporting the old OSs much like PPC/x86 or iPhone/iPad apps.

>I have heard of (not actually experienced as I do not have an Android phone) programs on the Android Market stating

When you open the market on a device it is pre-filtered to apps that work on your handset with your features, in your region, etc. Users don't have to read through and sigh at disclaimers.

Apps can even pre-filter by your screen size, whether you have a GPS, and so on.

The situation with Android is very similar to the Windows landscape: Lots of apps work perfectly fine back to Windows XP or before. Yet occasionally an app demands something particular on the newer variants so it becomes, for instance, Windows Vista+. Same idea with Android. That's just life of a quickly evolving ecosystem, and they've managed it well.

And remarkably many of the improvements have been ecosystem enhancements that benefit even apps target obsolete versions. The truth is that even today the platform API was so robust back on 1.6 (that was really the pivot point) that brand new apps still primarily target it.

Xcode allows developers to build for multiple architectures (armv6 and armv7), and you can pick what features are required from the device for installation (for example, requiring a camera or microphone).

At the OS-version level, you can build applications to take advantage of the latest OS, but also be compatible with earlier versions (that’s how the universal applications for iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch work—their base SDK is 3.2, while their target is set to 3.1.3 or below). Additionally, it’s fairly easy to detect whether or not a certain API is available at runtime.

I've updated my iPod Touch once, and it wasn't free.

Indeed, only iPhone upgrades are "Free", because they're subsidized. But the majority of people don't seem to get that just because you're not paying something at that particular point in time doesn't mean you didn't incur that cost over a stretch of time. It's also why people still think of iPhones as being worth $200 when in fact they are worth $600, and why they get so angry when they get hit with the early termination fee.

I haven't had any issues with downloading incompatible apps (even with 1.5). I recently started Android development and decided to target 1.5 and haven't hit any roadblocks. The only issue I've encountered is that 1.5 doesn't support separate graphic directories for different resolutions (and automatically scales).

This was by far the biggest change and improvement with 1.6, and it's why I target 1.6 and consider that the new baseline. From 1.6 all the way to 2.2, however, there is little that really makes or breaks an app.

I have friend who still uses a first generation iPhone and is miserable. It does run the apps but the hardware is too slow for the experience to be any good.

Apple owns their stack top-to-bottom. They dictate how their devices are built, how carriers will work with them, and every aspect of the experience from start to finish. Comparing the G1 to the first iPhone on the basis of software compatibility ignores that Google and Apple operate in very different environments.

>>Comparing the G1 to the first iPhone on the basis of software compatibility ignores that Google and Apple operate in very different environments.

It should be ignored when comparing the devices. Consumers don't want to hear excuses for a flaw in the experience, they want the experience to not suck. Those environments are the result of very conscious choices by both organizations.

But agreed, the pre-3GS iPhone hardware frequently feels very laggy.

Do you know if that is specific to the iPhone HW? My 1st-gen iPod touch performs very well with iPhone OS 3, only stutters a bit when changing tracks while playing games.

Yeah, the iPod touch processor has been scaled up slightly differently from that of the iPhone:

iPod Touch G1: 412 MHz G2: 533 MHz G3: 600 MHz, new processor

iPhone 2G: 412 MHz 3G: 412 MHz 3GS: 600 MHz, new proc (I assume), more RAM

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod_Touch http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/the-one-p...

Now that you have a free Evo 4G, are you at all interested in picking up an iPhone 4G?

I've been using a G1 for a year and the lack of quality apps for android (good design is rare) makes me want to pick up an iphone.

I've tried my coworkers Nexus One and its many times more usable than my G1 (pure speed) but it still lacks the apps and iPhone 4G will have comparable performance.

I'm happy with Android. All the applications I want or need are in the marketplace and app quality seems to be steadily increasing. The official Twitter app is a great example, it's gorgeous and highly functional. The integration with Google's services is excellent as you might expect, and I have a lot of data stored in that world.

Everyone I've shown the EVO to -- including half a dozen Googlers who use Nexus Ones -- have been struck by the size of the screen and feel of using the phone. It's strong competition for the iPhone.

May I ask what apps you are missing?

I've been using Android for awhile, and at least at this point, I've hardly ever found a lack of apps to be a problem. The only problems I've found are slowness (I have a sprint hero).

The main benefits I found to the iPhone (for me) are its speed and smoothness (esp. in the browser). The drawbacks thoug (for me) didn't make up for the gains (terrible notification system, lack of task switching, and lack of linux support).

Apparently Froyo could make it possible for the G1 to be updated, because apps can be installed on the SD card. I wonder if they will actually provide an update.

I'm running Android 2.1 on the G1 courtesy of the cyanogen mod (http://www.cyanogenmod.com/). Its been very snappy and has surprisingly had minimal bugs for a beta release.

I can confirm your experience. Heres hoping for a 2.2 release soon though!

Wow, your new phone has a whole 512mb of non-SD flash instead of the G1's paltry 256mb!

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