Comment by Strom | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Strom | Hacker News Reader

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The "games don't use CPU" line is only really true for multiplatform games that must also run on the low performance PS4/XBox One AMD Jaguar CPUs.

If we look at PC exclusives [1] then we can see that these are extremely CPU-hungry games. This hunger only goes up if we want to achieve a framerate higher than 60, say going for 144.

I personally have an i7 @ 3.8 GHz with GTX 1060 and none of these games can hold a stable 1080p @ 144 Hz. What's more, I've benchmarked the effect of changing GPU/CPU and increased CPU power increases FPS far more than increased GPU.

I upgraded from Radeon R270X to GTX 1060. In multiplatform games this is a huge leap. Battlefield 4 (1080p Ultra) goes from 43.1 to 94.8 [2], a whopping +120% increase. While in Dota 2 (1080p Ultra) that only netted me a +11% gain. Then when I overclocked my i7 from 2.8 GHz to 3.8 GHz I got a +23% increase.

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[1] For example Dota 2, H1Z1, DayZ, Civilization 6, Guild Wars 2.

[2] http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1043 & http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1771

Just curious: why do you want to run a turn based game like civ6 at 144fps? Or for that matter anything except super reaction-dependent FPSs?

You're correct that it has a significantly bigger impact in reaction-dependant games. [1] Civilization 6 was just a good example of a CPU-heavy game, regardless of whether those frames are that useful. However there's also the case of normalization. After using a high refresh rate monitor, even something as simple as moving the cursor in Windows feels laggy with lower refresh rate monitors.

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[1] This being all reaction-dependant games, doesn't have to be FPS. Even fast paced pong qualifies.

Does it matter that every piece of scientific evidence shows that humans can't see anything at more than ~70hz?

This is false.

Well, I guess that decides it

The thing is, anyone with a 144 Hz monitor [1] knows from experience that what you're claiming here is complete bullshit. Then there's also the fact that 70 Hz causes demonstrably more nausea in VR users than 90 Hz or more.

Beyond that, if you wanna act innocent and play a citation game, I can throw you a bone. I'll give you this [2], what do you give me in return?

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[1] This was already evident back in CRT days when 70 Hz was garbage and 100+ Hz was what every serious gamer was after.

[2] http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

Really? Your first citation is youself[1] and the second one is a random website that's clearly not scientific or published.

How about the NIH? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826883/figure/...

Gap detection thresholds for different age ranges. Notice that the average for vision is around 20ms, or 50fps. Yeah some people are lower but the large majority of people don't see any faster than 60fps

[1] so its not actually a citation it's just annoying.

This gap detection tests pretty much the same thing as CRT flicker. It tests at which point does a light source seem continuous. This doesn't cover the full extent of human vision capabilities. What's more, if you wouldn't have dismissed my link as "random" and actually read it, you would have seen that it covers this very same case and gives pretty much the same numbers. It's under Test 2: Sensitivity to darkness.

I could explain further, but I get the feeling that you've made up your mind and aren't willing to read much. If you change your mind, start with the link I gave earlier. [1]

In addition, this thing is pretty easily testable with home equipment. Get yourself a 144 Hz or faster monitor and construct the following program with OpenGL: two identical boxes moving side-by-side, one updating its position at the full 144 Hz and another at 60 Hz. [2] You'll see the difference yourself.

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[1] http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

[2] There's a web app as well, but unfortunately browsers don't support frame rates higher than 60 Hz that well. My chrome is limited to 60 Hz even on 144 Hz for example. https://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

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