New UK govt to curb CCTV, scrap ID cards, help open source | Hacker News Reader

New UK govt to curb CCTV, scrap ID cards, help open source

arstechnica.com

60 pointsElliotH16 comments

Can anyone recall the name of the philosopher who proposed a one-way viewing dome in the ceiling of a prison? So that whether or not there was an observer in the dome, the prisoners never knew for sure if they were being watched? Thats the way I feel about CCTV in this country - you never know if someone is watching (but in reality they probably arent, since there are hundreds more cameras than there are officers to observe them).

Good to see they are coming to their senses and scrapping the ID cards and ContactPoint.

The broadband sounds like a pipe dream - but I would literally pay double, maybe even triple, what I am paying now to get what they actually promise. I have 'up to 8Mbps', but in reality the maximum I get is about 1.

I think that's Jeremy Bentham and the Panopticon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

I like that word, Panopticon. The first thing I did, alas, was think of app/conference names based on it. Cropticon, Shopticon, SpanTech, OptiConf, PansyCon...the possibilities are endless.

You're thinking of the Panopticon[1] concept by the English philosopher Jeremy Bentham[2]. The concept was later used in a more general sense as a metaphor of the Western society by the French sociologist Michel Foucault[3].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault

I knew the EFF's Panopticlick sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. Makes sense.

https://panopticlick.eff.org/

Well generally with video surveillance, no one is watching constantly as that costs man hours. It gets recorded and if something is reported they can go back and review the tapes.

Sounds too good to be true. But if it really happens, it would be interesting to see how other governments react to one of the biggest surveillance supporting countries changing their policies this radically.

I sure hope Britain can set an example. I recently moved here, and I am surprised how many CCTVs there actually are. They are even indoors and inside buses. I hope some of these, obviously LibDem, policies can come through.

I'm not sure though, most Brits I've talked to actually want the CCTVs. What scares me most, is that the Chinese people I've talked to think that the Great Firewall is a good idea too. I don't hope Britain and it's people go the same route, and I hope I'm mistaken, when I say that oppressed people don't mind, or even like, their oppression.

To be honest CCTV doesn't really worry us (well, not me at least). Not on buses (for example) which are after all private endeavours!

Street CCTV may be another issue. I mean it doesn't concern me too much (we have a few CCTV cameras on the main street in my town, have done for years, and they have been useful) so long as it doesn't get expanded...

But I'm tentatively hopeful. The ID cards were all but scrapped anyway (we fought very long over than one and luckily the prev government lost) but it is good to see that confirmed. Nick Clegg made a big point the other day of talking about scrapping the "Nanny State". If he really does then that will be extremely popular - it's been the most aggravating thing of the last few years.

They also talked about increasing the number of coppers on the beat; I've said for a long time that should be a #1 policy for any government so it is good to see it talked about properly.

(Incidentally the Lib Dems have really laid into the Digital Economy bill recently - they might win too!)

The problem in Britain seems to be that largely people don't fear their government, they fear other people. Whether this is due to the class divisions in British society or a culture of hatred and fear promoted by the two most widely circulated newspapers in the country, I don't know. But I do agree that most people see the filming of public spaces as a good thing rather than a bad thing.

I think if you have been out in a UK city center on a Friday or Saturday night you might appreciate the problems the cameras are trying to solve. Not that I agree that the cameras are a good idea - but they are more a symptom of the darker elements of British culture that have pretty much always been there.

"Obviously libdem" ... Go read the conservative 2010 manifesto:

http://media.conservatives.s3.amazonaws.com/manifesto/cpmani...

Most of it is in there... Nothing to do with the Libdems.

A few quotes from the Conservative manifesto:

"Labour’s approach to our personal privacy is the worst of all worlds – intrusive, ineffective and enormously expensive."

"We will scrap ID cards, the National Identity Register and the Contactpoint database."

"We will scale back Labour’s database state and protect the privacy of the public’s information."

"We will introduce a balanced approach to the retention of people’s DNA and reform the criminal records system so it protects children without destroying trust."

"The indefinite retention of innocent people’s DNA is unacceptable, yet DNA data provides a useful tool for solving crimes. We will legislate to make sure that our DNA database is used primarily to store information about those who are guilty of committing crimes rather than those who are innocent."

"We will review and reform libel laws to protect freedom of speech, reduce costs and discourage libel tourism."

"Wherever possible, we believe that personal data should be controlled by individual citizens themselves. We will strengthen the powers of the Information Commissioner to penalise any public body found guilty of mismanaging data."

I stand corrected.

That's one reason I no longer live there. I had begun to dislike it by the mid-90s when I moved to California, and when I was back for a visit about a decade later the degree of surveillance seemed positively Orwellian.

I'm a little surprised by how strong and wide-ranging these proposals are, but so far this Liberal-Conservative coalition is yielding grounds for optimism (also in other areas, but that's a more political discussion).

"A little revolution, now and then, is a healthy thing. It is as natural as lightning...."

Thomas Jefferson

I hope the Lib Dems get their ways on these issues, particularly on the Digital Economy Bill

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