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adekok

> Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners.

s/foreigners/citizens/

i.e. everyone.

I'm a Canadian Citizen. When I enter Canada from abroad, they claim the same rights as the US CBP.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/alain-philippon-cb...

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I was detained and aggressively searched at the Canadian border (Montana/Alberta, for about 2 hours) in 1997; not because they thought I was a terrorist, but because they wanted to confirm that I wasn't coming to Canada to work. Friends of mine were turned back at the Canadian border later that same year. Canada has always claimed these rights.

What's changed between then and now? Because it seems they now welcome all the workers they can get, refugees or otherwise.

I flew up to Vancouver for a wedding. I'd lived there before and strangely I was aggressively questioned at Canadian Customs.

Why are you here? A wedding. Where are you staying? 2400 Motel out on Kingsway. Oh, a site of known criminal activity.

I rolled my eyes. The bride chose it because it was an X-Files filming location.

Tagential but is it not absolutely bizzare that at the US/Can border relocating to work is seen as a deadly sin, while broader US policy has brought so many immigrants into the country since JFK? Without saying either side is right or wrong, US Gov policy wholistically appears schizophrenic

If you're on a work visa then you're being upfront about planning to work and have the appropriate visa for it.

If you enter on a tourist visa (or visa waiver, whose conditions are usually the same as tourist visa) they want to be sure you aren't committing visa fraud and planning to work. That's what causes the grilling.

Yes, but why is that a big deal in the first place, vs. being offered a job and paying a small administrative fee to adjust a visa? The siege mentality is part of the problem.

I live in Washington and go to Whistler quite often to mountain bike. I've probably crossed the border 25 times in the last few years, and the only thing that the Canadian border patrol seems to care about is that I'm not bringing weapons into Canada. I wonder if they have knowledge that I have a CCW in WA. But in general they are always quite polite about things, which I can't say about crossing the border on the return trip.

As a German tourist the most annoying thing getting into Canada is to wait in line while all these other nationalities get questioned extensively before being waved through in 20secs. Wear your bright colored gore tex jackets guys!

Sorry if I'm spoiling a joke here, but does a Berghaus gore tex jacket really give you credibility at the border?

Paired with socked sandals ofc...

The Alain Philippon vs CBSA action was never tested in court. Failure to divulge information hasn't been defined as 'hindering' before, so the case would probably have to go to the Supreme Court of Canada for it to be decided. Secondly, even at the border you can choose to remain silent. The most likely worst outcome is you get refused entry if you are not Canadian.

See linked page for advice from actual lawyers.

https://bccla.org/2016/08/what-happens-if-you-dont-provide-y...

I've never had a nice experience returning to Canada (either by plane or car) after a trip to the US or Mexico. I get the full "random search" in a secluded room every single time.

Same here! When I was on a green card, I got grilled probably 30% of the time going to Canada. We're talking accusations of smuggling a car into the country and harsh questions about exactly what family I was visiting.

Going back to the US (even as a non-citizen!) I usually just got a "Welcome home!".

As an Indian that used to live in Canada for some time, I got the same "Welcome home" with a smile from Canadian immigration. I still miss that as I don't even get that when I actually come home to India.

Anecdotal, but: I suspect that the CBP have very specific criteria that can flag specific situations. I know someone who would systematically get arrested/interrogated by plain clothes officers if she was returning back to Canada alone. When not alone, no problem. Once, she was on the point of being arrested, when she pointed to her partner, and they stepped back. Although they never wanted to admit why.

After a bit of A/B testing, it seems to have been "older woman traveling alone with a fancy watch" that was flagging her. Without the watch, the problems went away.

CBP is Customs and Border Protection which is the American department for that. Canada has the CBSA - Canadian Border Services Agency. So you wouldn't get harassed by the CBP if you were entering Canada, it would be the CBSA.

sorry yes, I meant the CBSA :)

I had a nightmare of an experience crossing into Canada and am never visiting again.

Ugh. Canadian border crossings used to be so nice.

No, they were not.

I suspect that part of the reason here is a tit-for-tat.

The USA has a long history of being nasty to Canadians on the suspicion of them going there to work. Similar things happening to US visitors to Brazil and several other places.

Having a Dutch passport this never was a problem for me when returning to Canada, even though I was actually working there.

If you're on a work visa you're obviously allowed to work.

Entering Brazil as a US citizen was an interesting experience. Long pseudo-interrogation, fingerprinting, the whole nine yards. It wasn't until later I learned they basically just decided to do to all US citizens what the US was doing to Brazilians (and certainly others).

Brazil has a weird policy (the "reciprocity" law) that makes them apply to visitors from some countries whatever that country applies to visitors from Brazil. In theory that only applies to what kind of visas are necessary, but often they do so in terms of immigration/customs policy too.

So yeah, a while ago the US started requiring electronic fingerprints from Brazilian visitors (and everyone else I think?) so that's why Brazil started requiring that from US visitors.

I don't think that's weird, I think it's pretty awesome. But I'm biased, since I'm Brazilian :)

I'm not Brazilian and I think it's awesome too. More countries should do this.

I am Brazilian, and I think it's an outdated measure that serves little to no benefit, especially for Brazil itself.

It's fun (in a semi-vengeful way) to submit, say, Americans to the same level of scrutiny they apply to Brazilians. But it also means you're creating artificial barriers against making the country a more popular tourism destination. People in some countries are just not used to having to go throw all these hops to get to visit a country, just because they don't have to; when they learn that they have to go to a consulate in person, in select cities, stand in line for hours, go through an interview, and pay about $150 or so for the right to visit the country, they're quick to change their mind and just pick some other destination that is either easier or that allows you to do all of that online.

The country is basically making it difficult for people to bring you money.

This policy hurts Brazil more than it hurts anyone else.

It does make sense to do this, more countries need to stand up and say if you treat our citizens this way we are going treat yours the same. I mean the travelers interact with border control and the citizens are the only ones who legitimately can bring these complains to their border agencies. Ultimately it comes to be that citizens need to defend non-citizens rights and "reciprocity" policy might be effective because most people only act on their selfish interests.

This policy has been in place for decades with no change. That makes me doubt it effectiveness. I've heard of plenty of USA -> BR travelers being turned away at the border because they didn't realize they needed visas (a common occurrence for people traveling for conferences). Ultimately they understand the reasons and even empathize with the country, but it doesn't change the fact that for them it's easier to just not come.

To me it's more about an ineffective, vain attempt to show power than anything else.

The land borders in the western US were pretty nice.

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