Save the dog from a 70m deep, 35cm wide hole | Hacker News Reader

Save the dog from a 70m deep, 35cm wide hole

71 pointsaalpat59 comments

A real-life engineering problem.

In Turkey, a 3 months-old dog has fallen into a 70 m deep 30 cm wide hole and it's been there for 10 days. People and local government organizations are still trying to save the dog. It is still under 70m deep borehole in Istanbul.

According to tweets, local government branches of saving, rescuing, mining organizations are also trying to save the dog. They still need for more practical ideas.

Here are some information I gathered from tweets of Baris Sengun of Animal Rights Confederation.

Some info: the puppy is 3 months-old Kangal breed. They have considered to dig another hole in parallel. Since the soil is soft and muddy, they've been said it might cause landslide. The dog should't get weight but they normally get 1-1.5 kgs per week. So they feed it under control. They tried nets but it did not fit as it needs to.

The hole: https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/830216289155182592, https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/830038601174044672 Video from the hole: https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/830223838034132993 This didn't work: https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/831126486551764992 Hashtag: https://twitter.com/hashtag/yavrukopekbeykoz?src=hash

Any ideas?

Take a 140+ m rope, fold in half such that there's a loop. Affix a sizeable weight near the loop such that it is stationary on one side of the rope and the other side moves freely through the weight. Lower the loop down such that it is positioned, open, at the dog's level (like a snare). Wait for the dog to walk through the loop such that front paws are on one side and back paws on the other (obviously need a camera down there). Raise and tighten the loop (by pulling the length of rope that is free moving through the weight) such that the rope closes snugly around the dog (i.e. over its back and under its front legs; NOT around it's neck obviously). Raise.

Edit: diagram: http://imgur.com/a/W8PZ6

Even better:

Lower a baby down to it on a rope. The baby can grab the dog.

Backup plan:

Fill the hole with water. Puppy will float.

attach the baby to double sided duck tape, this way the dog will stick to the baby, then you just have to pull it up

It reminds me of The Crow and the Pitcher from Aesop's Fables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_and_the_Pitcher

Without knowing the total parameters of what is possible and not possible, perhaps they could slowly lower buckets of dirt and rocks to the bottom in a way where the dog could just remain standing on the top of the pile.

1. Bore a second (longer) hole at an angle 45° above the ground to meet at the existing hole at the end. The dog walks out.

    ------------------------ ground
    |                  ⧸
    |               ⧸
    |            ⧸
    |         ⧸
    |      ⧸
    |   ⧸
    |⧸

In the meantime, lower a long hose with a GoPro on the end into the hole to provide a stream of water and examine if the dog is hurt.

2. Ask the fire department for ideas?

Some ideas from a Reddit thread about getting a small object out of a deep hole [1]:

3. "Could a hose with vacuum pressure grab it?"

4. "Right now, we are thinking about making our own 20' version of the "grabeasy". Basically a long pole with bent wires coming out the end which will grab like a claw when you draw them in."

And from a pets.stackexchange thread about getting a cat out of a hole [2]:

5. "The safest interactive way for everyone is to use a live trap, and lower it down for the cat to go in and be lifted out."

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/needadvice/comments/2x94fh/how_do_i...

[2]: http://pets.stackexchange.com/questions/8171/a-kitty-fell-do...

Slowly fill the hole with very salty water. The dog will float to the surface.

The stated dimensions will require about 7000 gallons of water. This is the capacity of a large-ish tank truck. 70+ meter hoses should be readily available.

It's a dirt hole. My guess is that you create a large amount of mud at the bottom of the hole and then the walls collapse.

Presumably warm extremely-salty water, or it might get hypothermic.

However, if it's somehow wedged in there, the dog could drown.

I think you need to get a camera down there to monitor the progress of the solution

Or sand

or mythbusters style fill with ping pong balls. Probably both bad ideas.

I love dogs, like everyone else, but isn't this all a little bit much? Shouldn't they be considering solutions for humanely euthanizing the dog so it doesn't have to die of thirst/starvation?

Argon gas would fit the bill. It's heavier than air, so it would sink to the bottom of the borehole, and it's widely available due to its' use as a shielding gas for welding. Most importantly, it would be humane and entirely painless for the dog-- far more humane than leaving the poor animal down there for days or weeks waiting to be rescued.

i thought about it too, but then just replace dog with human baby for theory purposes

1. Long cable with a pinhole camera to "see" 2. Another long metal cable with a "loop" at the end to grab the dog. 3. Aneasthetic gas to temporarily put the dog into slumber so that the extraction is not stressful.

Send a cable with a camera along with an "extractor" (which can grab the dog by its body.)

1. Dig a parallel hole adjacent to the existing one (w/ a large diameter). 2. Then lower a person to the level of the dog (this person should have oxygen support). 3. Person then connects two holes by demolishing thin layer between these two holes. 4. Person rescues dog

Update: They got him out!

https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/830216289155182592

haha, just came to post this too. :)

Anyone knows how?

edit: I guess with this: https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/831698128604692481

wire cage just below the diameter of the home, 3 to 4 feet tall so dog can stand up in it, large cable to hoist it attached at the top, install a canvas cinch sack, with grommets in the bottom, completely open on bottom when lowering, run a smaller rope through the grommets, with the grommets low to the ground on the cage.

Also need a light and webcam or remote cam.

Hang dog treats on top of the cage.

Then Lower the cage with the large cable till it's flush on the ground, watch on camera for dog climbing up for treats.

Then pull small cable to cinch the bag under him.

Hope they get the little guy out.

My first idea was to build some sort of balloon/inflatable device that you drop into the hole. By affixing meat to the rope/hose, you can get the dog to climb on top of the balloon as it slowly inflates. Once you've got the dog out of the not-so-cylindrical bottom, you can deflate the balloon to the point of fitting the circumference of the hole. From here you carefully pull the dog up; making sure you stop if it's legs get caught/etc.

How is the dog getting sufficient oxygen...?

We need a small size intelligent being in order hold the puppy carefully and place it in a basket or sth like that. Robots? Could work, but agents are usually designed to do a specific task. For saving a puppy from a deep norrow well, I don't know if there any robot exists. Anyway, we dont need to call this an "engineering problem". It's rather a biology problem. Scientifically proven that mature animals have instinct to save the youngsters. I would release down a basket with another dog in it. When it reach the bottom, the mature dog will hold the puppy from the neck, and place it into the basket with itself. So I could bring them all the way up. A small size monkey could work to. We may need a very small training for the saver animal tough, to mitigate the risk of loosing both.

Reminds me of Baby Jessica

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_McClure

Jessica McClure Morales (born March 26, 1986) became famous at the age of 18 months after she fell into a well in her mom's backyard in Midland, Texas on October 14, 1987. Between that day and October 16, rescuers worked around-the-clock for 58 consecutive hours to free her from the eight-inch (20 cm) well casing 22 feet (6.7 m) below the ground. The story gained worldwide attention (leading to some criticism as a media circus), and later became the subject of a 1989 ABC television movie Everybody's Baby: The Rescue of Jessica McClure. As presented in the film, the relatively new technology of waterjet cutting was a vital part of the rescue.

Non-mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_McClure

Drop an inflatable tube into the hole. Try to maneuver the deflated tube under the dog. Inflate the tube and pull the dog up, using the tube as the "floor of the elevator" (so to speak). You could drop one of those auto-inflating life vests into the hole on a string, get it under the dog, then pull another string to inflate the jacket, then pull up the dog on the life jacket. I'm pretty sure you could get a vest large enough that it would block the hole!

Lower a strong cotton (edit: or some textile, something strong and thick enough) bag into the hole, with the rim of it held open by a strong wire. Large enough for the puppy to climb in, put food in there and something that smells human maybe. Best make the bag a longer tube. Hopefully the puppy will climb into it, getting the food - then try to pull the whole thing up.

Cut a dog harness and add strong magnets on each end. Send down each half of the harness on a separate rope and a camera... Where going fishin'. You could do the same thing with a net. Just drop each half on a side of the dog and let the magnets do their thing and connect to make the net.

Fill the hole with water on a pipe that's lowered to the bottom (so the dog does not get a shower for hours).

That's assuming the dog can swim/keep afloat for (presumably) hours - can any dog experts/those knowledgable on the subject comment?

As in, like filling a pool, to float the dog to the surface?

the hole doesn't have strengthened walls i guess so soil would collapse

Cut the bottom of a small plastic barrel so that it becomes a cylinder, lower it over the dog, have ropes at the bottom of the barrel to tighten it just enough to secure the dog and bring it up.

The flexibility and uniform shape of the plastic barrel might make it easier to get it down there.

make a 28cm-wide cylindrical cage with a trap door in the bottom and camera / light. lower over dog. trap door opens as bottom of cage goes over dog's head. keep lowering until cage is on bottom of hole. raise cage.

it may pinch the dog's leg but at least it wouldn't be dead.

The dog has been rescued:

https://twitter.com/MBarisSengun/status/831699209761980416

Gradually fill the hole with rubber mulch. Better friction than something like gravel, lower risk of the dog "drowning".

Put a noose on a rope with a remote camera. Grab the dog and pull.

Without a remote camera do the same but keep trying until you randomly catch it.

Fill the hole with water. Dogs swim/float.

Sell the rights to the story to a movie studio, and use the funds to get the dog out.

The dog is saved today by using a new made practical equipment.

Robotic clamp on a rope. Grab dog by the scruff of his neck and hoist.

How did it survive the fall?

What happened to the dog???

The puppy has been rescued!

Rope ladder perhaps?

Now you only have to teach the dog to climb the ladder. Sounds easy. :-P

You could put down another rope with a treat on the end. ;-)

helicopter + dude on a rope

Not sure what you need a helicopter for...

The hole is too narrow for an adult "dude".

A kid on a rope could work. Maybe.

Next headline: "Save the kid _and_ the dog from a 70m deep, 35cm wide hole"

and the loop continues

Heli, because OP mentioned the surrounding soil was soft and muddy, landslide, etc. Also for flare, obvs.

Use dynamite to open the hole a bit :D

"Any old winch would have worked but we decided to go with the helicopter for flare."

midget then

seriously 35cm ain't that small, i am almost 2m tall and when checking those Vietkong tunnels i could fit in secret hole in ground which was slightly bigger than my shoe

i am pretty sure for 35cm you could go with normal skinny adult, no need even midget

Because 70 meters isn't challenging enough?

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