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Comment by Mikeb85 | Hacker News Reader

> That'd be me. When I bought my Mitsubishi Lancer Hatchback with manual transmission in the US, having a working handbrake was a jarring experience. My friends spent a lot of time helping me break my habit of using gas and brake pedals for keeping the car balanced up hill - I can still do it well.

You mean people actually use the handbrake for hill starts with a manual? I thought it was just something you do when first learning. I've always found it more difficult to coordinate everything with the handbrake, I can operate all the pedals quick enough anyway. The only time I use the handbrake really is for sliding around :-)

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With modern, powerful cars, using the handbrake really is unnecessary. However until recently many European cars had only a handful of HP and incredibly low torque compared to modern diesels... Citroën 2CV: 12 to 21 HP DIN. VW Beetle: 34 to 50 HP. Even a "sport" car like a Golf GTI was 110 HP only in the 80s. The torque was also much lower.

Guess it makes sense. Every manual I've used has been relatively quite powerful.

I was not "taught" much to do with a manual transmission, but now I think I have a pretty good grasp of it. I've never done a hand-brake turn though. At first, I even struggled because the brief instruction I had had was from a used-car salesman and I barely learned enough to get my first manual transmission-equipped car off that lot. But I learned hand-brake hill-holding and foot-brake hill-holding, eventually, by trying them out when consequence-free opportunities presented themselves. There is a maneuver in turns, when you might need to make a gear change in a turn, that calls for manipulating the brakes, clutch and gas in coordination with the gear change, so the hand brake in that situation would not be right and your hands are full anyway. The goal of this maneuver is to maintain smooth momentum and change gears. So I think people should learn all the techniques.

No, it's something you're taught to do generally. It's going to be 3 inputs either way (accel, brake, clutch - 4 if you count steering), most people find it easier to do them independently with two feet and one hand than to have one foot do two inputs.

> You mean people actually use the handbrake for hill starts with a manual? I thought it was just something you do when first learning. I've always found it more difficult to coordinate everything with the handbrake, I can operate all the pedals quick enough anyway.

Your comment makes me think you've never had to do a hill start on a sufficiently steep hill with a sufficiently heavy vehicle. I don't care how fast you are moving your foot from the brake to the accelerator, you will roll backwards. Not to mention the wear you're putting on the clutch, which again, won't take that kind of abuse in a heavy vehicle.

You're right. I've only driven regular sized cars. I have started them on pretty steep inclines though, around 30%. I'm quick enough that I never roll backwards more than an inch or two.

Also, I'm not so sure that the friction from the car's weight + a tiny amount of backwards momentum is any worse for the clutch than the car's weight + friction from the hand brake.

The first time I used a car with hill assist I wondered why the car wouldn't start. Seems the assist was slower than me at the brake-clutch-accelerator game.

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