>This was in western Europe.
Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?
Most western Europe has socialized medicine. Was health insurance as essential as in the USA?
The original poster says claims Ireland doesn't and whilst I'd assume they know more than I do, http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/eligibility.ht... makes it sound substantially free or heavily subsidised ("comprehensive, government funded public healthcare system").
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/medical_cards_an...
Sounds comprehensive to you?
The income threshold is so low that only unemployed people qualify.
What? No. In Germany you have public health insurance and private health insurance.
Private is only an option if you make over ~55,000€ or are self employed. Of course there are many private insurance companies happy to sell you insurance. They're in it to make money. Just be prepared for the premiums to increase as you get older.
Public health insurance [0] is available from several different providers, all which basically offer the same thing: you get sick and go the doctor, you are treated without charge.
> When things go bad, you bet the insurance company won't be on your side.
I have never been seriously ill, but for all the minor things (flu, infection) I just went to the doctor and gave them my health card.
I do know people who have been seriously I'll, requiring hospitalisation, and I haven't heard many complaints from them. They're still alive, and not financially ruined or suing the Krakenkasse.
So how exactly will they not be "on your side" ?
The public health system in Germany, and other European countries from what my friends say, is not the most luxurious or expedient, but you get the care you need and without paying extravagant amounts as one would in America.
I know people in America on ACA who pay thousands per year and still have a deductable of thousands. Sure, I pay ~4,000€ to the Krakenkasse through the mandatory salary deductions each year, but I have no deductable for care.
As a young and healthy person it doesn't cost the German government that much each year to keep me alive, but this money goes toward keeping other people healthy and alive. I consider that a worthwhile goal (though I do strongly want them to ban tobacco advertising).
[0] https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetzliche_Krankenversicher...
A colleague of mine got diagnosed with a serious heart condition, was away for a month or so without sick pay, got fired as a result and went bankrupt from medical bills.
Maybe this is supposed to be an easy question, but as an American, I have no idea which western European country doesn't have socialized medicine, and Wikipedia is not helping me out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers...
Some medical card for the destitute exists but if you're working you don't qualify.
The whole medical system is a nightmare, but it's a very small country as well.
Ireland is a weird (and sometimes nightmarish) mix of European and American culture. For some reason we decided that some of the dumbest ideas of the US simply had to be implemented, at great cost to the average citizen.
There's always loopholes in socialized medicine usually only affecting the poor.
I pay for my own health insurance (because I own my own company) and while not cheap, it's affordable. I think I pay around $250 US/month. I get regular checkups included (most prescriptions cost me $10 or less) and I had a colonoscopy last year and it cost me less that $50.
If I had major surgery, I would be out a couple of grand. While it does have problems, it's nowhere near as bad as many would like you to think.
So no I cannot go bankrupt with health insurance in the US.
Also, many people aren't able to work when they are sick.
When I actually post my real experiences, I get down voted to -2.
....and we wonder why there are so many broken systems in the US.
[0]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/food-stam...
Again, I will have to disagree. Do you have any actual experience with this or are you going to just give me more talking points....
My wife's sister went through stage 2 breast cancer over the past 2 years and she had her own insurance plan as well. After 4 major surgeries and 1 year of chemo, her total expenses are $10K.
You can negotiate with hospitals and they almost always have payment plans with 0 interest for a few years. She negotiate it down to $5K, which is pretty reasonable, considering the amount of time she spent in the hospital.
My Aunt lives in Canada and she had thyroid cancer a couple of years ago. Because it wasn't considered 'life threatening', she had to go before a health board to determine when she should actually receive surgery.
They determined that she could have surgery in 2 years. This was unacceptable, so she went over the border to the US and got it done in a month.
I would much rather have the option of actually getting the surgery done in a timely fashion than having to go before a board (IE: the 'death panels' that everyone talks about) to determine my fate.
The US healthcare system does need work, but many people use hyperbole and have never experienced it first-hand.
There are millions of Americans who can't afford $250/mo on top of food, rent, and transportation costs, working more than full-time hours spread across several jobs, all of which pay minimum wage in poor conditions that are bad for their bodies and with unpredictable scheduling.
In light of the reality of many, many people's experiences in the healthcare system that are contrary to your own, which are NOT hard to find, your comments comes across quite poorly.
Sure there is. There aren't that many private insurance companies in the US and they all work similarly.
"I take you haven't experienced the system as someone, say, making less than $25k/yr, in every single state, at various times of year (say 2 months before your deductible rolls over) with various kinds of conditions (acute, chronic, extremely rare, etc?), at various points in their careers (if they can even claim to use that word)? And you've experienced this in a range of personal contexts?"
I feel like this is the 'no true scotsman' logical fallacy creeping into the conversation. You could say the same thing about every single healthcare system (or any large system) in the world: it's not the same for everyone.
..and by the way, my wife's sister makes $35K/year. Money has little to do with it.
"There are millions of Americans who can't afford $250/mo on top of food, rent, and transportation costs, working more than full-time hours spread across several jobs, all of which pay minimum wage in poor conditions that are bad for their bodies and with unpredictable scheduling."
You say that, but many people I know won't pay for healthcare, but pay more in booze, weed, and expensive electronics and services.
When I was single, I got bare-bones care for $75/month. This is as cheap as a cellphone plan. My premiums were high, but I wouldn't go bankrupt if I had major surgery. Many people can easily afford healthcare in this country. They choose to spend their money elsewhere.
I've traveled the world and the US has the richest poor people I've ever seen. Try living on less than $2/day with starving children.
Hospitals can't refuse anyone by law. We also have lots of systems, paid for by the taxpayers, to help people on low incomes get the care they need.
"In light of the reality of many, many people's experiences in the healthcare system that are contrary to your own, which are NOT hard to find, your comments comes across quite poorly."
Your comments come off as rather naive. No system is perfect and I can point to many instances of people getting terrible care in every other healthcare system as well.
You want to paint a hyperbolic picture that the US healthcare system will make you go bankrupt and you need to be rich to get care.
My point is that this just isn't true. It needs work, but it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
> "Money has little to do with it."
Again, you are severely out of touch with the existence of many Americans if you think money has nothing to do with it. I guess the poor ones aren't actually poor if they would just stop spending money on vices? You would do well for yourself if you stop looking at anecdotes of people you know, and start looking at the generalized case of the hundreds of millions Americans across socioeconomic classes.
The disappointing truth is that there are indeed many hard-working Americans (many of them immigrants...) who bust ass all year long, and they don't have money to pay for even a high deductible plan. They can barely make rent. And if they did, those plans still result in many tens of thousands of $s in the event of a severe hospital stay. These are the people where a single chain of events can push them into severe poverty with no easy way out.
If you read HN then you'll know this stuff is happening, and a lot of people are talking about just how hard it is to climb these days for the bottom %s of America. Just a few months ago, we're now at the point where potential to climb, social mobility is lower than our grandfather's generation?
I would like to invite you to read some of the work done by David Belk MD and see if that changes your seemingly cavalier attitude that it's "not that bad". Here's a former comment of mine with some links. The system is very inefficient, with a lot of corruption, and people like you are genuinely hurting people by fighting as if it's otherwise.
Keep in mind that many people would be bankrupted by a $5k expense.