Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware [video] (2016)
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Devboards I see online with a high powered ARM board are in 150-200$ range for the devboard without camera/sensors and with stuff I don't need (network ports, display ports, etc).
Then I look at my 150$ Chinese smartphone (Xaomi RedMi Note 3 Pro) - it has Snapdragon 652 - Quad Core 64 bit CPU, OpenCL 2 capable GPU, 3GB ram, 16 GB storage, 13MP and 5MP cameras attached, gyro on board and 4G/WiFi/GPS, 4kMAh battery. The specs alone are better then the best devboard I found.
So I'm thinking if I can get it to boot without screen I could throw away the case and the screen, hook up GPIO trough USB for 10$ and get a better dev board than I would for 200$ with all the sensors and IO and a battery on top ?
I wonder how much it would cost me if I could just buy the parts on these markets and not have to disassemble a complete phone.
I see it for $75 at one of my usual suppliers.
It has a snapdragon 410 - 1.2Ghz, 1GB RAM, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.
However, both of these are probably huge overkill for a quadcopter.
The problem you face is twofold:
* The quadcopter needs to react in real time, so you need a real time OS.
* Machine learning can use a huge amount of memory.
The usual way to solve this, is a simplified onboard system. Crash prevention and the like. Probably an Arduino or ESP8266.
Then, that communicates with a ML system on a laptop or the like, which does the hard work.
My idea was have something like that hooked in to the bigger board via USB - the Android is creating flight plans and the micro controller is just managing the motors and following the plans it receives.
snapdragon 410 seems like it doesn't have OpenCL 2 (shared memory access ?)
For the other board, I probably wouldn't use USB, but a serial or pin connection could be faster.
Broadcom recently released the spec sheet for the Raspberry Pi's GPU, and people have been doing good work with that.
Edit: Snapdragon 410 has official support only for OpenCL 1.1
I was just thinking USB since it's guaranteed to be there and should be simple to program on android if I chose to go down the "disassemble a phone for parts" route.
Even tough it doesn't have OpenCL 2 capable GPU it has 10 cores - but something on the higher end seems very expensive and cheap boards are generation old chips with Mali450 GPUs or PI level HW.
It seems cheaper to get a cheap chinese phone with top level chipset and all the sensors and dissasemble it - maybe get one with a broken screen - although it's a gamble that the rest works.
[1] getchip.com
The parts aren't really available on the open market, but your best bet might be to get a secondhand phone with a broken screen.
There are also people designing dedicated "arduinocopter" boards and suchlike, which have a microcontroller, motor controllers, and IMU all on board.
Yeah I thought about this, will fish around but I'm afraid that if the screen is broken the rest might be damaged too. But even disassembling my phone doesn't seem too expensive if everything works out as expected.
Oy vey
There is still plenty of hardware work being done in sv, but maybe the manufacture is in China.
While it can still be found to an extent, the abundance of surplus electronics is nowhere near what it used to be; things started to go downhill fast after about the mid-1990s - but it really started much earlier.
Today, you can get cheap new electronics (and other parts) from China and other sources, and there is still some surplus available - but no one can deny that it is anything like it was (and for Chinese sourced components, you may have to wait a while to get them - heck, I just recently received some parts I ordered on AliExpress back in December - and it wasn't the vendor's fault - it was stuck in customs in China for some reason).
It's frustrating from the standpoint of innovation and experimentation (not to mention learning on a budget), but there isn't anything that can be done about it (and maybe we shouldn't do anything about it, either)...
One of the most interesting types of innovation which has come out of Shenzen is within production. Some of these companies literally started creating cheap knockoffs smartphone batteries and is now delivering superior batteries for ex large car manufactorers in ways European companies simply can't compete with.
Japanese started the same way. They started with cheap sup-par copies and trinkets. Gradually their quality improved.
One could say the evolutionary process is based on this principle.
Copy. Paste. Improve. Repeat.
It's easy to call a peoples way to move up in the world bad, its much harder to suggest a real world viable alternative path. I'm ok with China becoming the worlds best manufacturers of many things, and the cheapest manufacturers of other things.
I am unaware of another path that they could have taken, or could take right now, that would get them as much GDP or even better citizen outcomes, except for perhaps spreading the wealth downstream a bit more?
From a hacker perspective it is incredible. On the other hand, this is all driven by a profoundly illiberal government that has no goals other than its own survival and that's supported by a lot of human misery, some might say slavery. I love using Apple products but it's hard to forget the conditions at places like Foxconn.
Both sides think they are outflanking the other - the West hopes this development will liberalize China and increase respect for IP and rule of law while the Chinese government intends to use this interaction, trade, and adoption of tech to increase their own power. It's a very risky game. It's easy to criticize the US government (and for obvious reasons - this is not a defense of US foreign policy) but Chinese hegemony might be far worse.
As techies how can we create places like this in other more open countries? Can this kind of development not be done locally or in Latin America countries?
Please understand this is not an attack on China, just some (I think) realistic concerns about their government.
This is common misconception. China is authoritarian country but it's not a totalitarian dictatorship. Chinese government actually has problems of controlling it's population and people are not afraid to show their displeasure with protest and riots when things are wrong.
Politically modern China is very much like United Kingdom before universal suffrage. Communist party (60 million members) is very much like the noble class in UK. This upper class is full aware that they can't rule with iron fist. They have to deliver better conditions for people and manage industrialization and urbanization or their days are numbered. They have also tied their existence to Chinese (= Han) unity and nationalism (dangerously so, Taiwan is existential question for the communist party).
Economically modern China is very much like UK during industrialization. People in China are more at the mercy of crony capitalism and smog than the government.
Hopefully China will go trough similar set of gradual reforms. Maybe communists end up in the Chinese House of Lords where communist party still has little power.
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>it's hard to forget the conditions at places like Foxconn.
People in the developing world move to cities to escape malnutrition. They are not forced to work in Foxconn, they choose to work in Foxconn in exchange of enough nutrition. If you want to see bad conditions, visit rural China and India where people still suffer from malnutrition. Malnutrition in China has dropped dramatically, thanks for hose horrible factory jobs. India has it much worse.
[1] http://www.hkupress.org/Common/Reader/Products/ShowProduct.j...
That's totally untrue. People who come from the country side can't change jobs like that, they need some kind of permit to change jobs and sometimes they are actually forced to work somewhere. The job market in China is clearly biased against the worker, there is no real freedom of work for a large amount of people in China. And you're not even talking about all the corruption going that make sure these people keep getting exploited and forced to work in these places.
> China is authoritarian country but it's not a totalitarian dictatorship
By all standards it is a dictatorship, with re-education camps, no freedom of speech, a secret police and summary executions. Just because they are capitalists doesn't change that. The fact is, in the west we don't care, provided we have our slaves that build cheap stuffs. We basically outsourced slavery and accepted it thanks to an effective PR and the corruption of our own governments. Things were different 10/15 years ago, back then, China had a different reputation.
Your information is outdated. China is changing rapidly. Things that were true 20 years ago are not true anymore.
It used to be that people had to be part of a work unit. In return people received free housing and were assigned a job. This is not true anymore. People can move around the country relatively freely, they can pick their job and buy their house. On the other hand they may have to live in the street and or go on without a job.
Big companies like Foxconn provide housing etc. and may try to control their workers, but people can quit and leave. They even have strikes. Chinese workers still don't have right to organize, but sometimes collective bargaining is allowed at factory level.
Chinese government still restricts workforce moment into some areas to prevent formation of slums in the cities.
In November 2005, Jiang Wenran, acting director of the China Institute at the University of Alberta, said that the hukou system was one of the most strictly enforced apartheid structures in modern world history.[56] He stated, 'Urban dwellers enjoy a range of social, economic and cultural benefits while peasants, the majority of the Chinese population, are treated as second-class citizens.'[56]
Kam Wing Chan (陳金永 Chén Jīnyǒng) and Buckingham's (2008) article, "Is China Abolishing the Hukou System?"[30] argues that previous reforms have not fundamentally changed the hukou system, but have only decentralized the powers of hukou to local governments. They conclude that the hukou system remains active and continues to contribute to China's rural and urban disparity.[31]
In March 2008, over 30 leading intellectuals wrote an open letter to the Government, asking for the "immediate abolition of the rural-urban dual hukou system." In 2008-09, web posted essays remarked the Hukou system as a "caste system" of China, and "China a great country of discrimination."[32] The system is currently only partially enforced, and it has been argued that the system will have to be further relaxed in order to increase availability of skilled workers to industries.[33]
I understand that there has been some reform, but it still exists.
Like I said, Chinese government still want's to prevent uncontrolled rural-urban population transfers and formation of slums. Undocumented immigrants in United States are analogous problem (citizens versus immigrants).
But the system has been radically changed. If person can show that they have work or house after six months they can stay and get their children in school etc.
The OP took the time to write up some actual criticisms and you've waved that off with "you must be American". That's not fair criticism. You can be disenchanted with American democracy and still see Chinese authoritarianism as far worse.
Do you have any response to the OP or are you just going to wave them off?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_China
Numerous human rights groups have publicized human rights issues in China that they consider the government to be mishandling, including: the death penalty (capital punishment), the one-child policy (which China had made exceptions for ethnic minorities prior to abolishing it in 2015), the political and legal status of Tibet, and neglect of freedom of the press in mainland China. Other areas of concern include the lack of legal recognition of human rights and the lack of an independent judiciary, rule of law, and due process. Further issues raised in regard to human rights include the severe lack of worker's rights (in particular the hukou system which restricts migrant labourers' freedom of movement), the absence of independent labour unions (which have since been changing[3]), and allegations of discrimination against rural workers and ethnic minorities, as well as the lack of religious freedom – rights groups have highlighted repression of the Christian,[4][5][6][7][8][9] Tibetan Buddhist, and Falun Gong religious groups. Some Chinese activist groups are trying to expand these freedoms, including Human Rights in China, Chinese Human Rights Defenders, and the China Human Rights Lawyers Concern Group. Chinese human rights attorneys who take on cases related to these issues, however, often face harassment, disbarment, and arrest.[10][11]
You seem to have a warped sense of morality
Probably not, but we can't really know this, and at least having a democratic government in theory provides some leverage. My argument is that paying incredibly low prices for technology has human costs and perhaps is not sustainable.
But, it's great they can offer great jobs to farmers assembling iPhones.
That's assuming farmers are happier on factory lines than they are working on their farms. Is there evidence to support this? Of course we can't and shouldn't keep China agrarian but Western consumerism is subsidizing some ugly stuff that wouldn't be possible without it.
China does not compete on an even playing field with many other countries because of poverty yes but also because its government is interested in development at all costs.
And yes, the West developed the same way but it doesn't mean it's ethical.
Otherwise, if you need it faster, look on Amazon or Ebay (use vendors that have their product "fulfilled by Amazon" for fastest shipping, for Ebay, look for sellers that have the cheap stuff shipped from the US - that usually means they have stuff stocked in the States). It won't be as cheap as AliExpress, but it will be close enough (the extra premium may or may not be worth it for you).
Also - be aware that there are also surplus outlets out there for electronics and such, if you're just experimenting and not manufacturing (where you need a dependable supply of new components). I personally like (and purchase from often) these places:
http://www.allelectronics.com/
It's easy to criticize the US government but Chinese hegemony might be far worse.
I thought that was enough to avoid defending the US, but I guess not.
It just oozes American Exceptionalism without any substance.
The thing in it may or may not be true.
First result searching for daily mail Wikipedia: https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/09/wikipedia-bans-daily-mai...
A pretty weak point to make.
Most Chinese people I work with would agree with that too. They left China, they know why, and they're mostly not looking to get back.
The Chinese sitting across my desk just happily came back from China, the Chinese sitting besides me will go back to China in two weeks and has been looking forward to it since Christmas. I would have gone back to China during Christmas if I had enough PTOs.
Actually all the Chinese folks I know since college all go back to China on a regular basis (usually at lease twice a year). So what kind of Chinese do you work with?
The latter actually affects me, being a non-US citizen.
Do you have sources for this claim? All I can remember is some financial crisis around 2009 which lead to economic downturn and austerity. I seem to remember this crisis originated in ... the US? You disagree?
And I hated SF, very happy in Groningen for some time now.