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I had a cavity filled last year and the dentist told me about how when he was a child, he went to a dentist who didn't use local anesthetics and he felt everything.

He didn't say it but I suspect that he went into dentistry to save other people from what he experienced.

Ok, it looks like I wasn't clear enough: when I wrote anaesthesia, I meant general anaestesia (narcosis). (English is not my primary language.)

Narcosis for filling a minor cavity seems like something that should only be necessary as a last resort.

I wouldn't have a problem with local anaesthesia, but it just wasn't necessary in this case.

He came home from the dentist and told me how he turned on the tap with his magic wand. No sign of trauma anywhere.

What you wrote was clear to me.

It seems a bit unlikely a dentist would be able to distract a kid from excruciating pain.

Soviet dentists didn't use anesthesia either. I experienced quite a few visits that would probably be considered war crimes if they were done to captured combatants. It took a long time for me to be able to visit the dentist regularly.

I'm sorry what you went through, and I agree - let the kids have anaesthesia.

People often wake up dumber after general anesthesia.

My guess would be that GA is an order of magnitude more dangerous than most routine dentist procedures like root canals or teeth extraction. Most people would rather suffer through the pain than add extra risk to the operation.

I'm with you, in that I avoid anaesthesia when possible, but be careful making sweeping statements about "most people" without having some data to back it up. My off-hand guess is that "most people" would prefer GA.

> Most people would rather suffer through the pain than add extra risk to the operation.

That might be true when people are making decisions about their kids. I question whether it's true of people making decisions for themselves.

Is avoiding pain really a good reason for GA? At least in my dental procedures (and I've had quite a few for my age), the operations itself where uncomfortable, but the painful part was afterwards, when the anesthetics wore off.

Depends on the type of pain. The pain afterwards I can manage, the pain during is of a completely different magnitude.

But even if they could guarantee it would be 100% painless, I would opt for GA every time. The problem is being operated upon while fully aware of what is happening. We don't even treat animals that badly. If you bring your dog to the vet to have tooth fixed they put him under, but a human has to suffer through the experience ?

GA can be extremely dangerous for some people. I know someone who has had several knee surgeries without GA because they don't handle GA well enough to make it worth the risks (death, for example). There are very good reasons why a lot of procedures are done without GA.

It is highly likely that even if your relative is very sick, the odds of him/her dying due to general anesthesia are pretty low. The amount of people for whom GA itself is "extremely dangerous" is extremely small. Anesthesiologists optimize. Their job is to counsel you on what they think is best, to lower the odds of complication. We often have to put people under who are very, very sick due to surgical constraints. A crushing majority of the time, nothing bad happens. It's all a question of lowering the probability.

I suspect the opposite.

A few years ago I had to have a gastroscopy and the doctor was baffled that I refused GA.

Motivations vary wildly. My mother actually had root canal treatments with no anesthetics whatsoever, solely to save money on anesthetics. OTOH my SO now saves money to get all her teeth fixed under GA, because of her fear of dentists.

That is only looking at the physical part though. It doesn't take into account the psychological damage that is done. I'm pretty sure I've got a form of PTSD as a result of my childhood dentist experience and I suspect my anxiety issues are at least somewhat related to it.

GA may be "an order of magnitude" more dangerous if you are already very sick or have it administered by a non-specialist. In the hands of someone who knows what he is doing, the risks are orders of magnitude lower than even crossing the street to go to work every day.

There are two main real reasons why a dentist prefers to go without GA:

- no need: most dental procedures are minor, and well-conducted local anesthesia is sufficient. Unfortunately, dentists often underestimate the pain and anxiety generated by some of their actions.

- not alone anymore: if you want anesthesia, you have no other alternative than getting a specialist, who will have to be paid. Furthermore, the anesthesia provider will interfere in care decisions if required, making him a pain for the dentist.

So yeah, mainly money...

Are you saying this with awareness of claims like this?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/294966.php

Is that difference statistically significant? For those who don't have time to click the link, they looked at 53 kids who received GA and 53 who didn't. The average IQ of the first group was 5-6 points below the second. Now the stdev of one IQ is 15, so the stdev of the average of 53 is 15/sqrt(53)=2.06. The stdev of the difference of two such averages is then 2.06*sqrt(2)=2.91. A 5-point difference is then a 1.72 sigma event and a 6-point move a 2.06 sigma event, and the probabilities of more extreme events are 4.3% and 2%. I guess that's statistically significant, but not by much.

Look, I didn't read the paper, and it's not the only one.

Go to the dentist, you do not want bad teeth. Brushing and flossing 2x/day is not always enough (and 1x almost never is).

Can confirm. 23 years old, 5 years no dentist, aggressive paradontosis with 2 teeth already dead and a lot of gum recession. Can't eat apples or steaks any more. Go to your god damn dentist.

I feel your pain, i'm in a similar boat with less excuse. Any recommendations for choosing a dentist? I've got a lot of work to be done, so i want someone competent, friendly, etc. I fear price gouging for something that is already more expensive than i can afford.

I've got so much work to be done i need to construct a long term "game plan" with this to-be dentist. So, yea.

edit: I should add a bit of "dentist phobia" as well, i suppose. I don't claim it normally, but my heart is racing just reading this thread -_-

I live in Europe so I unfortunately cannot recommend ways to find the best dentist in the states. Dentists here choose depending on need first because a lot is covered by insurance anyway. However you should definitely see more than one dentist and ask all of them for a care plan. It's called therapy and cost plan here, there surely is something similar everywhere.

By the way, don't be scared. I have no excuse also, and thats very liberating. Distance yourself from the story in the head - for it is root of all suffering in this world. Underneath, everything is and is okay like that.

30, haven't been to a dentist in 9 years. Scared to go, but no pain or bleeding. I brush every other day...

That being said, I've had a lot of work done -- the front to half of most of my teeth is fake. The fake enamel saved my molars. I know this because my last dentist was a preventative and let's fixa problem when it is a problem type, not an aggressive one.

I do not understand why fake enamel is not standard. It works -- I'm proof. It's almost like dentist want you to suffer and use their services.

I suspect it depends on your diet as well. I am less good at brushing/flossing than I used to be, but have a healthier diet (less processed foods) and go sometimes for years without needing anything beyond plack removal.

No matter what you do (or your dentist does), if you have bad lymphatic circulation, any sinus infection has potential to turn into a root-pulp infection necessitating a root canal. I've had five of those—and no cavities—in the last four years.

I finally decided to research the problem, and ended up taking diosmin (not for any of its on-label uses, but simply by the logic of its pharmacodynamics: it increases lymphatic flow rate, like blood thinners increase blood flow rate.) Eliminated a bunch of other circulation problems I never really realized I had at the same time.

My friend was in the Marines and had to get is wisdom teeth removed. Lucky for him they were training Marine dentist at his base.

He said they wiped some type of numbing gel and proceeded to grab his wisdom teeeth out with pliers. The trainee couldn't get them out so the instructor climbed on his chest and yanked them out.

I can confirm. I had the same experience minus the trainee. Had my wisdom teeth extracted while in the Marines. It was over in less than 30 seconds - no time for anesthesia to kick in nor do I remember him administering any. Crack, crack, yank - done.

Much depends on the position of the teeth. Pulling some with pliers would cause so much bleeding that choking could kill the patient (teeth still well below gum line).

You could just do the operation with the patient laying face-down on a massage table (the kind with a head-hole), so that the blood runs out of their mouth instead of down their throat. Might be a lot of blood loss, though; you'd want to wear goggles while doing the yanking. :)

My wisdom teeth happened to come in pretty straight and level. When I was in the Army, the dentist there suggested having them taken out during AIT (primary MOS training school), but it wasn't an order. I nope'd right out of that because I had heard about a dozen stories like yours.

My wisdom tooth extraction was a minor disaster. I have an extremely sensitive gag reflex, and the surgeon just couldn't do his job. Had to knock me out.

I don't know how old you are, but old medical theory stated that babies, and by extension small children, did not feel pain due to their nervous system being immature. By "old theory", I mean no more than 30-40 years... Needless to say, the attitude towards that has completely changed since then, and dental care for children is now commonly done under general anesthesia when necessary.

As for children being potentially struck for life by that, you are absolutely correct. It is also valid in adults, as I have been unfortunate enough to witness first hand during my younger years.

A big part of it is that going under general anesthesia is more dangerous than not going under general anesthesia.

It's also more expensive than a vial of lidocaine and takes longer.

I had a filling put in last year. Local anesthetic only. No pain. Took about 20 minutes.

I've had a few procedures done over the past year (root canal, extraction, wisdom-tooth extraction) all under local anaesthetic. Quick and painless, just like your experience.

The pain is not the issue, being stuck in the chair is. I get really anxious just getting a haircut.

I was not trying to tell you how you should experience dental treatment.

I did feel it was useful to respond to It was such a huge difference with the 'regular' experience that I simply can't understand why dentists insist on letting people experience the torture. I think they are all secretly sadists that get off on hurting people. with my contrasting experience.

Counter anecdote - I've had a few root canals and fillings in the last few years. The first one was with a doctor who refused to re-apply the local. I was all but climbing out of the chair from the pain.

Went to another dentist a few years later to let the experience dull in my mind - this one would re-apply the local, which made the experience tolerable, but hardly pain free. And that doesn't cover for the feeling/sound of the drill. And the smell. Gods below, the smell of burning tooth, root, and plastic... That's me you're burning up there!

Seriously thinking about GA next time.

Many dentists use water cooled drills. Shop around?

I do have the good fortune of having seen the same dentists for 20 years.

When you say local, you do mean a novocaine injection, right? Not just the numbing gel they smear on your gums first?

Tell your next dentist that you're very sensitive to pain, and they'll up the amount of novocaine, and the locations they inject it. I suffered for awhile before telling the dentist, and making them take me seriously, and they started injecting more, making the procedure bearable.

> a novocaine injection, right

Indeed.

> Tell your next dentist that you're very sensitive to pain

That's what I did. Still wasn't pain free, apparently I have deep roots, and Novocain wears off faster. Bad luck, I guess.