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Comment by vkou | Hacker News Reader

> You wouldn't say that that somebody hacked Iceland's democracy.

No, you wouldn't. The wailing and gnashing of teeth over the DNC hacks are all because the Democratic leadership is unwilling to accept responsibility for putting forward a bad candidate. Better blame the Russians, instead! If only the public didn't know the truth, we would have won!

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You aren't wrong about the Democratic Party putting forth a weak candidate, but it is concerning that there weren't similar actions on the other side. The attacks were targeting a specific party alone and seem to be motivated by foreign geopolitical interests, not in the American public's interest.

There is a reason we want equal time laws for example, because if I constantly hear one side of the argument, it doesn't matter how true those arguments are, I will come to biased conclusions.

Imagine all the dirt on GOP email accounts

Like that time Sarah Palin had to release her personal email acct? Remember all the bad stuff in there? No? That's because there wasn't any. It's weird that when a political entity gets caught rigging debates (and worse) the std response is "I'm sure the other side did it too".

If the press digs up dirt on a candidate, should they not publish it until they dig up some dirt on their opponent? What if it's a foreign newspaper? Should Deep Throat's leaks not been published, because they would influence the election? What if he were a card-holding Democrat? What if he were a reptilian agent?

I hate Trump as much as the next person, but there was no shortage of actual dirt that was dug up on him. There was no democratic outrage over the source of his comments about grabbing people's genitals... Or that one page of his tax return.

The press "digging up dirt" is surely different than the illegal hacking and wholesale release of all private email correspondence. Deep Throat provided info on the current President's illegal actions to a journalist, not just "dirt".

Even if we accept that it is better to know the info in the DNC leaks, it is still a big problem if a foreign government can wield its influence so easily through illegal computer intrusions. At least to me.

Leaking the Trump tax return was illegal. There was nothing illegal in the tax return. The Snowden leaks were quite probably illegal. Many of the things he leaked were not illegal. (Since this will never go to trial, we'll probably never know.) Should the press only report on legally-sourced information? They aren't a jury.

Good news for us, though - both illegal leaks, and illegal hacks are illegal. We already have a mechanism to deal with bad behaviour in this space.

> The Snowden leaks were quite probably illegal.

Not at all. It was required behavior. Until the government enacts a useful whistleblowing program someone who witnesses criminal actions has literally no legal choice but to leak. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away is the illegal option.

I want my institutions to be fixable from inside but when they aren't, I simply want them fixed.

Re Downvoter - I understand that you're upset but lashing out, especially against the truth, doesn't help.

It was illegal. Which does not stop it from being moral.

No, it was legal because it was a requirement which overrode all lesser orders.

No law can compel you to break the law, or cover up abuses of it.

The way he went about it was (and is) illegal. The legal way would have gotten him nowhere, though.

That's not true though. No law can override your requirement to report a crime. If one does, it obviously isn't valid.

He had every reason to think this was the minimum he had to do. Which has been shown to be true.

> We already have a mechanism to deal with bad behaviour in this space.

I'm not sure if we do, that's kinda my point about why this makes me so uncomfortable. Clearly no one will be held accountable for the DNC hacks.

I think I misread your original comment a little too, the press should definitely report on every thing we just mentioned. They definitely aren't a jury and once it's out, it's out. My issue is framing the actual leaks like they were "whistle blower" leaks like Deep Throat or Snowden. I guess that's mostly personal opinion on the value of the leaks though.

The idea that our political discourse is now shaped by who can get what hacked information and how they can weaponize it (Trump's taxes, DNC's emails) scares the crap out of me. Even more so if it was a foreign government targeting one political party.

I'm rambling a little but the future that this shows me looks terrible (and probably unstoppable).

Not necessarily. There was some circumstantial evidence that the tax returns were leaked by his ex-wife, who would have every right to release the returns since they are also her returns.

Not sure that there's actual conclusive proof that the phishing attack on Podesta's gmail account was in fact carried out by an entity affiliated with the Russian government. All of the other accusations that I've heard along the lines of russian hackers hacking into the actual "election hw/sw" were laughable.

Funny thing is this alleged hacking was [supposedly] one of the reasons for demanding recounts in the states narrowly won by Trump and the only actual hard evidence discovered was "pro-Clinton discrepancies" in Detroit at which point the recount in the state of Michigan was stopped :)

On July 27th, Donald Trump asked for the assistance of a foreign power under US sanctions. Specifically, he asked for assistance in performing opposition research. This is fundamentally wrong IMO, and arguably a foreign emolument in and of itself. He did this during a live televised press conference, beginning with the words "Russia, if you're listening..." [1]. There is documented evidence of a large-scale Macedonian-originated "fake news" ring [2], and thousands of comments in closed pro-Trump Facebook groups which demonstrate that a nontrivial number of Americans believed the obviously-false (e.g. [3]) information being peddled.

That is fundamentally different than having a questionable history be exposed by a free press.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnY7D4M4k68

2: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281

3: http://usapoliticszone.com

It doesn't concern me at all. The Democratic Party isn't a branch of government. It's a private company. That so many treat it like it's a government organization is far more concerning than the motivations behind any hacks of one or both major parties.

While you are technically correct, do you want to live in a country run by private corporations or would you rather public pressure and regulations be able to influence the parties?

I'd rather the latter. Which is why I don't care that the private company that is the DNC was hacked.

They don't succumb or respond to public pressure in any meaningful way.

I think we should do more than treat it as a governmental organization, we should regulate it into behaving more like one, or regulate some of its influence away so that there's is more room for third parties

Plenty of states already have regulations. California has rules about how parties elect their boards and whatnot, for example, and officially recognizes parties.

I agree that we should reduce their influence. That would be the opposite of doubling down on our current system of treating them like pseudo-branches of government.

One way to accomplish that would be to ban official recognition of parties, require them to fund and run their own primary elections, and move to multi-member representation districts. All of these things can be done at the state level for state and local offices.

Whoever it was actually did target the RNC, but as for your other point it still befuddles me how Russians not wanting a president who was threatening WWIII with them is some sort of groundbreaking revelation that proves this was an insane conspiracy and not just every day business by a nation looking out for their interests

Just because one party was predominantly targeted doesn't mean they were sponsored by a foreign geopolitical interest. This could mean that guccifer 2.0 was a partisian (in America or abroad) acting on his own beliefs, or it could also mean that Democrats are especially bad with infosec and Republicans aren't.

> but it is concerning that there weren't similar actions on the other side.

This is just wrong, of course there were. "Grab them by the pussy." Was also a leak and was also published with political intent. (And just quietly, also demonstrated a man is an utterly foul human being whom I would cross the road to avoid.)

It wasn't just the presidential race either, Guccifer 2.0 (suspected Russian front) also targeted Democractic down-ballot races in the House and Senate: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democra... with stuff taken from the DNC.

You are so wrong it's practically dangerous. And not about Clinton.

Seventeen US intelligence agencies [1] have joined in a consensus opinion that Russia, under Putin's command, ran a targeted campaign aimed at opposing Hillary Clinton and helping to elect Donald Trump. It is well-documented beyond any reasonable doubt in a full report, portions of which (including conclusions) have been made unclassified [2].

This should be troubling to any American. In fact, it seems to be: Donald Trump himself has pledged to conduct an investigation into voter fraud surrounding the 2016 US election [3].

So let's do it. Investigate the circumstances surrounding the 2016 election. Make public the extent and severity of Russian disinformation operations, and hold them accountable. Investigate why James Comey made a fact-free statement contrary to FBI policy during early voting, when 40% of total ballots are cast. Investigate any and all financial dealings with Russia in the run-up to the election, by either candidate. Perform full recounts and investigate voting rolls for evidence of improper exclusion or inclusion. Oh yeah – and check to make sure Hillary Clinton, the tragically flawed candidate who nonetheless put up with mountains of abuse – really did win the popular vote by approximately three million.

1: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/...

2: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/ODNI_Sta...

3: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/us/politics/trump-voting-...

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