Hacker News Reader

Comment by coldtea | Hacker News Reader

>Well, perfect except that six years in this machine is very creaky. It needs a reboot every week or so (otherwise it will refuse to launch anything).

That sounds totally unrelated to the age of the machine, and totally related to what's installed, the mini running out of disk, etc.

Maybe do a clean install of the OS?

Aside from the mechanical parts (CD ROMS, Hard Disks, etc), the "digital" parts of a PC do not age and their age does not affect program execution speed (all other things being equal).

Either they work, or they don't (well, corrupted memory can cause crashes when accessed, but it wont slow down programs).

View on HN

There is one factor that heavily affects performance that you haven't addressed though: Software demands on hardware increase over time. MacOS today is more demanding than the MacOS of six years ago. Even if the hardware is in perfect condition, you can't run all six-year-old software, so it's going to be slower.

Differences in hardware matter in subtle ways too with new versions of MacOS. For example, AirDrop or Handoff work seamlessly on the latest hardware, but frustratingly work one day then not the next at random on older hardware. The difference is Bluetooth versions 2.0 compared to 4 or 4.2, but one wouldn't likely even realize what version of Bluetooth a computer has.

The NUC he describes sounds perfect for what he wants. Kaby Lake might not have many noticeable improvements over Skylake for most uses, but the integrated graphics for streaming high resolution content are significantly better. Furthermore I don't think there is any Mac that has HDMI 2.0 necessary for sending 4k video to a regular television at greater than 30Hz.

> Furthermore I don't think there is any Mac that has HDMI 2.0 ...

  MacBook (Retina, 12-inch,
  Early 2016) and 
  late-2016
  MacBook Pro models 
  support 60Hz refresh 
  rates over HDMI when 
  used with a supported 
  HDMI 2.0 display, an
  HDMI Premium Certified
  cable, and a supported 
  USB-C to HDMI 2.0 
  adapter.

Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587

I think the keyword is "when used with a supported display" here. I have yet to find a 4K display for my mac pro that actually works at 60hz.

Unless it's a typo in your reply and you meant MBP, Mac Pro isn't listed above. They explicitly call out machines that support USB-C, which the Mac Pro is not.

I see that active adapters that support HDMI 2.0 are about $25 now. Apple's $50 multiport adapter is only HDMI 1.4b, I suppose because it only handles the built in USB-C alternate mode.

Yep! That's exactly why. USB-C alternate mode only supports DisplayPort 1.3 and HDMI 1.4b. You'll need an active adapter like you mentioned. Not surprisingly, Apple doesn't sell them, that would be to useful.

For future readers, here's one as an example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FIVSC6Y/

Note that one actually says it is not compatible with the new 2016 MacBook Pro.

Odd, works for me. Hmm

You can turn on airdrop to advertise over a wired network connection and then that will go away mostly if your on the same network.

That Mac Mini would run fast again with Windows 10 on it though.

This tiny little Zotac ZBOX that I got for $150 off Amazon has a less powerful CPU than the 2010 Mac Mini from the article and Windows 10 flies on it.

https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-Quad-Core-Graphics-Barebones-ZB...

Honestly, I can't fathom why anybody would have chosen a Mac for an HTPC within the last decade to begin. I can see why people would buy an Apple TV, but if you want the "full" OS because you want to do more stuff - you can't beat Windows.

If you have content from iTunes, iTunes on Windows is a hot mess. Scratch that -- to compare iTunes to a hot mess is unfair to the hot mess.

>There is one factor that heavily affects performance that you haven't addressed though: Software demands on hardware increase over time.

I've covered that in: "all other things being equal".

Counterfactuals aren't very useful though. All other things aren't equal, specifically, you aren't going to be running all six-year-old versions of software on the device. So my point stands.

?? My 2011 17" MBP, which I still use all the time, has no problem at all with Sierra. I think you're quite mistaken. Battery runtime is actually better than it used to be.

My mini was basically unusable due to the hard disk. Switched it out recently for an SSD and it is a decent machine now.

I have the same problem with my iMac (the last couple of revisions of MacOS seem to be unusable on hard disk), but it's bit more difficult to swap in an SSD on the iMac.

There's one mechanical part which affects the execution speed: the fans. When they fail (or when the heatsink gets completely filled with compact dust), the CPU can overheat and throttle its speed.

I haven't looked at the mini line in a long time, but the whole point used to be that it was passively cooled so your media box didn't generate fan noise while you were watching TV.

I've had a few versions of a mac mini over the last 6 years or so…they've all had fans, although the fans only kicked in when it was under load. For most routine stuff, it's pretty quiet.

Most / all Mac Minis have fans. They're usually off and thus silent, but they're in there. And if you kick off a long running high CPU job, they can be very loud.

In that case, replace the fan, put in a SSD and you're good to go!

Yeah what the hell, how can you write a tech blog complaining about a product if you don't perform even the most basic of system maintenance. Or, if you are doing maintenance, why not explain what you are doing?

Also, can't a Mac Mini that old be upgraded with a 2.5" SSD and more RAM?

It would be a fair criticism if cards were not so obviously stacked against me, the end user and maintainer. New versions of software are written for new and more powerful hardware. I don't know about Mac mini specifically, but it is incredibly hard or even impossible to upgrade Apple products with new hardware.

Only the "current" Mac Mini has upgrade restrictions. But the prior model has almost identical specs and can be upgraded.

Yes, the quad cores sold prior to Oct 2014 can be found in craigslist/ebay etc for US$700-1100 tho i think they're limited to 16Gb RAM

http://barefeats.com/macmin14.html

The 2010 Mini is quite easy to upgrade, the HDD and RAM at least. An SSD alone is enough of an upgrade to keep it running smoothly even with current software for the stated needs.

If you can make a Mac Mini into an HTPC, you can follow some Youtube videos to replace a Hard Disk and RAM. It's just a few screws and a single cable.

I just refreshed my memory by looking at the iFixit guide for the 2010 mini, and it is the same cast-iron PITA that any late model mini is. I had to buy special tools and a cable and it took 2 or 3 tries to get it right. The whole time I was nervous that I was going to miss disconnecting some cable and ruin the thing.

Can't pin point the problem, but I experienced pretty much the same with my old mac mini. It's probably a combination of factors: HDD gets fragmented over the time, new software and versions of OS are more demanding, drivers not optimized for old hardware, etc. Some of this can be solved by upgrading to SSD or clean OS reinstall, but not all.

> the "digital" parts of a PC do not age and their age does not affect program execution speed (all other things being equal)

Maybe not in six years. But I've been shopping for 25-year-old music synthesizers and the field is filled with discussions about how to replace bad capacitors, broken power supplies, and (most interestingly) failing chips.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com