I Am a Recruiter (a.k.a Spammer) at Amazon
the.devway.xyz
the.devway.xyz
This is NOT a "All these amazing companies are trying to throw money at me but I don't want it" it's a "These people keep offering me a job I don't want, given their requirements, and I'm not at all guaranteed it even if I do accept their requirements". This is akin to getting credit card offers in the mail IMHO. Getting recruiter "spam" (calls or email) is 99.99% of the time NOT an indication that you are a great developer but rather you have made some sort of an email list.
Sure if companies were contacting me with better jobs that I currently have or jobs that I'm a shoe-in for (ie. they've done their research on me and they want ME not just someone who has certain keywords on their LinkedIn profile) then I'd be super happy and a blog post about that would be humble brag but this is different. These recruiters spam thousands of people with the same form-letter so they can pull in a handful and get a percentage of their salary for the first 3/6/12 months they are employed at their new job.
My first job was at a company with no visibility to mainstream tech firms, doing relatively uninteresting stuff, getting paid far less. I had to do hours of LinkedIn homework and cold-applying to get any single interview, and that's still no guarantee of a job either.
Now I'm at somewhere with a recognizable name and I get recruiter emails quite frequently. I could set up an interview with a five minute phone call in response. Sure, any of those jobs may still be a bad fit, or I could fail the interview, but it's about 50x easier to even get to that stage now.
So if you're complaining about getting recruiter contacts, don't be surprised when the people not in that world have little sympathy.
(Amazon does seem particularly messy and disorganized, though. I get quite a few contacts from them from various departments in locations I've told them before (for other positions) that I'm not interested in...)
This is how girls on OkCupid feel.
>Sure if companies were contacting me with better jobs that I currently have or jobs that I'm a shoe-in for (ie. they've done their research on me and they want ME not just someone who has certain keywords on their LinkedIn profile) then I'd be super happy
is exactly right. (The following is from the perspective of a woman, though I'm not one.) If a better man you're more interested in and who really is a match for you and interested in you, does the same same thing it is not creepy anymore. You can take this analogy very far. Whether you're bothering a girl or she's happy to hear from you depends on how great you are, not what exactly you do to reach out to her. You can really learn a lot from the parent comment, and your insight shouldn't be downvoted.
If people actually want these emails just create a linkedin profile with development keywords in it.
But I can fully understand those who are at a different point in their carrier get angry about posts like this.
In actuality, once you decide to respond to one of them, you quickly realize that you're not fast-tracked in the application process in any way. Really, the only step that was skipped was that you didn't have to manually apply on the company website. In fact, the application process is usually longer and more difficult in Bay Area companies than elsewhere (at least in my experience), where it's typical to have to do
1. Initial phone call with recruiter 2. One or two algorithm interviews on the phone with an engineer 3. "Take home coding challenge" which they claim only takes an hour or two but often ends up taking you 4 or 5 hours because you don't want to submit subpar code 4. "On-site" interview that can take 4 or 5 hours
Meanwhile the recruiter has no problem lying through their teeth about the details of the role. Like, I've had a number of applications where I tell the recruiter I'm looking for a role that's math/ML focused, only to find out once I get to the final onsite that, no this is just a pure engineering role. They don't care how well your experience or interests fits with the role; all they want is for you to do the interview so their numbers look better.
"I read your profile and I think you'd be perfect for this role" - Amazon recruiter, who didn't notice I'd stopped working at Amazon 4 weeks before, as clearly indicated on the profile they 'read'.
They aren't even outside of the norm. Technical recruiters are about 90% bullshitters who would say anything at all if it meant they got you into an interview. I'm with my current company in large part because our recruiter is in the other 10%.
I got this.. about once a month when I worked for a major telecom.
Facebook:
I came across your Github profile and I noticed your long-stack-traces and evil.css projects have been gaining quite some traction on Github.
Fitbit:
P.S. Cool to see long-stack-traces and evil-css getting some love!
unnnamed venture-funded startup:
I found your profile on Github and I like all the work you've done with JavaScript and node (and especially evil.css)
This one actually seemed genuine:
Oh man, I remember evil.css. A guy I used to work with set it as my Safari user stylesheet, then forgot about it. I don't use Safari all the time, so it took me a while to realize something was wrong, and even longer for that guy to remember what he'd done to my machine. So uh... thanks for that. :P
OTOH, there's no reason that sort of email can't be generated from a list of templates either.
My favorite was when a recruiter obliquely referenced something I'd once tweeted complaining about recruiter spam.
I came across your Github profile and I noticed your ipv6 enabled goatse steganography projects have been gaining quite some traction on Github.
The funny thing is that I've had several smaller / more local recruiters comment on it and laugh. They get a small amount of respect / hold my attention longer than the first line of the email.
If it was less than once every two weeks, it wouldn't be such a problem. Heck, once in three months like in the article sounds like a huge improvement. They are seriously relentless.
a) Emailing people that just switched jobs is a waste; most people will stay a year at least.
b) Who wants to go work for a company that is having layoffs?
Fortunately I'm happy where I am now but I was astounded at the brazenness.
example: You're a freebsd/netbsd/openbsd sysadmin with a CCNP and some asshat is trying to recruit you for a front end HTML5/CSS UI/UX designer position. Seriously. Jesus christ.
They're the ones who have a wealth of knowledge about business management practices. Business management practices developed for manufacturing. And never adapted to address thought-work. In Amazons case, this leads to them having a great deal of policies that are hostile to tech workers. A coworker of mine who has several kids was talking with Amazon and even considering the move to Seattle. But then he asked them about the work schedule. They were not coy. They let him know in no uncertain terms that he would be expected to work very long hours in perpetuity, and that if he desired "free time" to be with his family, he was 'not a good fit'.
These practices lead Amazon to churn through people very quickly, leading to their constant need for more people, driving their recruiters to become proficient spammers.
> I recently came across your blog (one picture of your cat had me dying).
I'm fairly certain the recruiter did not read the whole blog post [1] because it is a eulogy for my dead cat. Normally I'm fairly calm and try to be understanding and empathetic especially for people just doing their job, but this put me in such a white hot rage. Not only did I email the recruiter back telling them off, but this was the kind of rage where you are no longer acting impulsively, but have come back around the other side to being calm and rational in your rage, so I tracked them down on google, figured out who their boss was and CC'd them on it. I felt a little bad about it, latter I've had shitty sales jobs too, but man rule 1 page 1 of bland icebreaker email openers has got to be 'make sure it's not a god damn eulogy'.
1. http://calvinmetcalf.com/post/94533627852/a-thousand-days-of...
No, I don't think the recruiter clearly saw anything. It sounds like it was sloppily added bit of personalization that anyone who wasn't carelessly hasty would have avoided.
I mean, would you cold call someone for a job and casually throw in a mention of their mother's death (to be a bit more extreme)?
So it's fine to say you found a picture of the op's now deceased cat to be amusing and adorable, but maybe don't use the word "dying" in the context of a dead cat.
Edit: wording
The boss probably had a good laugh about that botched personalization of recruiter's message.
By the way, without reading your post it is hard to figure out that your post is a eulogy for your dead cat.
That'd be an anti-join, not a cross join.
On a more serious note, there should be a "Do Not Call List" for email addresses. It'd be damn near impossible to implement for everything as I doubt Nigerian princes will bother checking it, but a "name and shame" campaign against companies and their recruiting affiliates that ignore it would work.
Course the other problem is that having such a list and such a service also provides a way to verify the validity of an email address.
I asked the recruiter contact at Amazon why they had sold my resume/details, or if they had a security issue. Of course they said they'd look into it (still waiting for that response a few years later...).
It is shocking that a company of Amazon's size with so much confidential information can't keep a hold on private recruitment data. I refuse to interview with them again based upon their complete disregard for my personal information.
Amazon recruiter: "Hey let's set up a call"
call happens, then they actually check into my background
Amazon recruiter: "uhh let me check on some things and call you back".
Never hear back. Just the blatant brazenness and stupidity of the entire exercise. You had time to coordinate and schedule a call out of my and your day, but couldn't even be bothered to look into my skills for 5 minutes? How does this help you recruit? How does this help Amazon? Like I get it, I don't have the pedigree of a Google background, cool, why even bother with a call?
Words to live by. I am considering getting them as my first tattoo at 38.
Since then I've been contacted from time to time. I initiated the process with a team coming to Berlin in December. I should've known better and asked them right away about other teams coming in town later :) My mistake. Anyway the first message I got was slightly inaccurate about the job location, but I decided to give it a try. I took their automated online assignment (no, not the infamous proctor.io one they give to interns/entry-levels), did well (it was reasonable), then had a call with the technical recruiter and was left to set the interview date with the recruiting event coordinator.
A couple days later, not one, but two managers from AWS contact me on LinkedIn to tell me about an upcoming recruiting event in Berlin. I reply to the first one, tell him upfront I started the process with another business team already, but that AWS would be a better match (given the job location, and I'm not going to lie, AWS are the cool kids and I like their products). He says there's no problem, I can cancel my interviews with the other team, and just transfer the process to the AWS recruiting event. So I tried to do that.
The recruiting event is going on as we speak, I believe. I'm still waiting for the AWS technical recruiter to get in touch. I reminded the manager 3 times and eventually gave up. Sorry Amazon, I'm not that desperate. I'm not a fan of companies that have a generic interviewing process, no matter the team you're applying for. I think it makes sense that each business team is running its own recruiting pipeline. But come on, you can do a better job than that.
Make sure you keep your receipts and bill them, though. Eat out at a nice restaurant!
And if you flub the interviews, who cares. It's great practice.
This of course means that I've only held jobs I wasn't particularly interested in. Well, at least at the time I interviewed for them -- some have turned out better than expected :)
This isn't at all exclusive to Amazon. I get these all the time from other places. Bad recruiters abound inside and outside of Amazon
Y'see, the most productive years of my life have been spent with on-site teams. We've often had some remote teammates, and uniformly they have been less productive and less connected than the on-site folks (despite being excellent colleagues and hard workers). I think that digital connexion really isn't the same as analogue connexion, in much the same way that an ereader isn't as good as a book. I wish that weren't the case; I really do. But I think that it's true, regardless of my wishes.
Now, as an employer would I rather have the very best talent working remotely, and hence less productively, or not as good talent working on-site, and hence productively? I don't know the answer to that.
Should employers be flexible about remote working (e.g. WFH, even medium-term remote working)? Definitely. Should they bring full-time remote workers onsite regularly? Definitely. If you're saving $10,000/year on office space, you can spend $4,000/year on quarterly trips to bring folks in for a few days.
I don't know how a recruiter got your email but I doubt it was by trolling registered developers. If so they violated Apple's policies.
I wasn't a good fit for that particular team at the time, but it would be nice if they ever tried again. I'm not in the valley, though, so that's probably why they don't contact me very often. Google and Amazon try to get in touch with me a lot more often than they do.
Cold email/call is really successful strategy. There nothing unusual about getting hundreds of emails. For requiters is better to send 40 cold emails than one crafted and build upon relationship.
Finally as a receiver you can still benefit. Because you can send cold responses. You directly ask about compensation. You can instruct requiters to search for specific technology/team/location. There is plenty of more shady uses.. baiting/bidding/spying etc..
Most of them don't even bother to write back.
I'm sure you can find somebody for whom working at Amazon is a living hell, and I am sure you can find somebody as happy as a clam.
As for the people I know there overall I have a positive impression but a lot of that comes from practicing vendor management (where it helps to have a PMA) An old Oracle DBA taught me the power of getting what you pay for from vendors thus I've invested a lot in getting good at getting service from AWS.
You will not have a big output at the end of the funnel if the input isn't big itself.
So they want as much people as possible going through that process. Each step needs to be cost-efficient enough as well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Honestly it makes Amazon look bad, because it implies they're both disorganized and desperate for warm bodies.
>>> START FORM <<<
Hi <name>,
Thank you for thinking of me for this opportunity. In order to save you time, I've created an initial checklist of information that I’ve found to be useful for evaluating whether I’d be a good fit for your position:
* What is the pay scale for the position? (If the pay is based on the resume of the candidate - what is the highest pay scale that the company could offer?)
* What is the name of the company?
* What is the title of the position?
* Does this position allow for remote work?
* What technologies and tools do the company use? (If unknown, leave blank.)
* Is there a job posting I can refer to for required/desired skills for the position so that I can make sure I'm a good match?
With the additional context provided by these questions I can give you a definitive answer on whether I’d be a good match to your position.
>>> END FORM <<<
It's a bit of an obnoxious thing to do but most of the non-affiliated recruiters will give up at the outset to avoid the chance of someone applying at the company behind their back (and thereby eliminating their hiring bonus payday) and corporate recruiters will often stop after they find out they can't satisfy my job environment requirements.
Yes, I forwarded the e-mail chain on to them.
I think by US law it was copyrighted as soon as I created it.
> Can I use it?
I give you or anyone else on HN the right to use it verbatim and without restriction.
That way you can safely forget about the existence of said email once you find a job.
It's not something that the person being hit on necessarily wants.
Dont want to recieve emails ? Filter them out.
Dont want to be hired by Amazon, send a restraining order and what not, contact their HR directly, or what not but ranting on medium will not solve the authors problem.
This makes me question if the author is secretly just clickbaiting for attention