Ask HN: My internship is asking me to not apply elsewhere, how do I say no? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: My internship is asking me to not apply elsewhere, how do I say no?

20 pointsSyntaf36 comments

Right now I have a fun internship with a small startup that works on a contract-by-contract basis. It pays really well ($22/hr + bonuses) and I have great relations with my boss & manager.

The problem is that the job is not enough to go full time on, there are often a couple off-months between contracts and we can only afford 20hr work weeks. I've started applying elsewhere in the city in hopes of getting an internship that can transition to a full time job outside of college (i'm in my last year).

My boss just emailed me today that they may have a contract secured by the end of Q1, and asked me if I could not apply anywhere else and would value my commitment to the summer. How do I tell him I am applying elsewhere without burning a bridge?

Thanks for any help guys

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I will give you an advice (12 years industry experience) which hopefully you should remember forever:

No one is looking out for you except YOU. PERIOD.

Don't forget this rule above. If your boss decides that they don't want/need to hire you at the end anyway, you are screwed.

Tell your boss "I look forward to working with you if it happens" and then keep applying wherever you need to apply. Your boss may mean well but at the end of the day, he has to report to someone and he has to look out for himself/herself.

Never ever put your career in anyone else's hands except yours.

well said, in addition, your boss could be fighting for you and still not be able to hire you due to other circumstances within the org.

Solid advice. Having more options is always better. Companies are not your friends. They don't deserve loyalty.

If you have to reply to the e-mail to acknowledge it, just say something along the lines of "Sounds great, thanks for letting me know!"

You don't have to say you're applying elsewhere. Him asking you not to apply elsewhere, is not the same as him demanding you to tell him if you are doing so.

Business deals fall through all the time, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. A contract is not a contract until it's signed. Even if they sign it, there's no guarantee that they will keep you on.

A minor issue, but something still to note: Your boss said the contract "may" be secured, not that it "will" be secured.

I'd be a little careful here.

Boss said he would "value your commitment" for the summer span. By replying and saying anything in the affirmative, will the company consider this an informal agreement in lieu of the (upcoming) written contract?

tldr: if you reply yes, will they take it as a verbal contract?

I wouldn't say anything yes or no, perhaps something along the lines of "when a contract is ready to be presented to me in writing, I'd be happy to review it." And nothing else.

I don't think a reasonable business person would see that hypothetical e-mail exchange as something to count on. I think the boss is just trying to guarantee he/she will have a good worker if the deal happens. An emotionally-invested person might consider the e-mail as an agreement, but such person shouldn't expect a worker to sacrifice his/her future opportunities for a risk like this.

Looks like they are budgeting / sending an offer and having a $22/hr labor cost is an advantage.

Dont' tell them lies unless you have to. Just say thanks for counting with me or something similar; but _keep_ looking just because, shit might happen and you'll need to put food on the table anyway.

As it concerns "burning a bridge", remember that your employer is the one soaking it in gasoline from multiple five gallon containers, they're just asking that you not strike a match.

Which, of course, is completely unreasonable. Even if you have a written piece of paper with signatures on it, if they decide they don't need you anymore or can get another intern for less, they will effectively tear that piece of paper up and send you your way.

Moral: as others have already said, keep applying and let the cards fall as they might. Unless they have a full-time offer in hand for you today, you have no obligation to them. And I can guaran-damn-tee you that they feel absolutely no obligation to you. I mean, read your 2nd-to-last sentence: do you sense any commitment or obligation on the part of your employer? No, the commitment is completely one-sided.

So in other words, he's dangling a carrot that's about two months away?

BTW, if you're dealing with "contracts" (implying a consultant/independent contractor relationship), then he's not your boss, he's your client. That's a big difference.

The main thing here is that he's asking you to commit to something that he's not willing to commit to himself. To me, a measured, non-commital response would be in order. Keep it polite and let him know that you'd be happy to discuss a contract for the summer once he's able to commit to one.

No point in aggravating the client but this is a business deal (selling your time and expertise). Treat it as such.

An employer cannot tell you to not apply for other work.

Just respond saying something like: "Thank you for the heads up. I look forward to it."

Nobody looks out for you in this life except you! (within reason...). An employer has to look out for the company first.

>An employer cannot tell you to not apply for other work.

In the US, uh of course they can.

Is it legal? Most people don't know. Will you sue over it? Unlikely as it's probably not worth the hassle.

People can do/say pretty much anything and the vast majority of the time the consequences are minimal or nonexistent.

I'm not saying they won't ask. I am saying they cannot ask. You are right, however. There are minimal to no consequences if the employee doesn't press the issue. If the employee did, I am not sure it would really go much further without significant resources to sue.

> I am saying they cannot ask

Based on what exactly? I'm not familiar with any specific law prohibiting it.

They can ask for anything. If you say yes, though, the only thing binding you is your own sense of obligation to keep your word. The promise to not look elsewhere is not legally enforceable (at least in many states; IANAL and I don't know whether it is not enforceable in all states).

A lot of events can happen between now and then - they have made no hard promises (and to their credit they seem to have been truthful about why), but if they don't get a contract secured, then you're out of a job and delayed in a search for for a new one. That describes a path where one set of outcomes that can basically delay your life progress.

It seems you don't have any hard stake in the startup, you have a soft stake in the work relationship there - but I would suggest that if that relationship doesn't stretch to accommodate the risks of both sides than it really wasn't that much of a relationship to start with.

You can be as kind as possible and say you're not looking specifically to leave, but that you feel you have to keep your options as open as possible too, and I think that is perfectly fair on your part.

Draw up a contract that sells your option to apply elsewhere for what you decide the value of that option is. See if they want to buy.

This would be amusing, but is basically how a retainer works.

Right and this is the exact use case for retainers! We want to reserve you for possible future work and you want to not be broke while waiting for work.

This is too aggressive.

I'd ignore request.

If repeatedly pushed for an affirmative answer - I'd be frank and polite - stating that I am happy with your company however would like to keep my options open, just like all of us

Welcome to the post-college real world :)

Honestly, there isn't enough info in your post for anyone here to give a proper answer. eg the city you are in makes a difference. No worries, some general things to think about in your last year of college:

1. Don't work for a bad boss if you can avoid it.

2. Figure out what a bad boss means to you. But my criteria (especially right out of school) includes working for a boss I can learn from and a boss with high EQ (a boss who understands when his/her employees are stressed or exhausted or confused it makes a big difference).

3. Learning how to not burn a bridge is smart. But burning them happens sometimes. Try to please everyone and you will lose. It gets easier with experience (plus if someone is talented at their job, these ppl seem to be able to not burn bridges no matter how big an asshole they are). Maybe one reply to your boss could be: 'Thank you. Please let me know when you get that contract so I can discontinue my current talks with other companies'.

4. Believe in your startup and its product. Maybe more important than a good boss, ymmv.

5. Always be networking and getting to know people in your industry/in your city. Even if you don't call it "applying" I would be reaching out to other startups now. Email them say you are graduating and ask to learn more about what they do.

You be honest and forthright: tell them the reasons for your concerns, and that ultimately you have to do what you think is right for your current situation.

If that "burns a bridge" then they're not very reasonable. They might not be happy about it, but that's a separate issue.

It sounds like you will not be able to go full time after your graduate due to them not having enough hours. I doubt they would want to pay you a non-internship rate and once you grad, they'll replace you with another intern. Another red flag to me is them asking you to not look for another job. Sounds like they are more concerned with themselves than with your well being. As others have said, just say thanks for letting me know, etc.

Apply elsewhere. Sounds like a fishy environment to work in to me.

Just say yes you won't apply elsewhere and then apply elsewhere anyways. How are they going to know? Besides they can't enforce a contract like that in court because 1. there's no consideration 2. it's a contract in restraint of trade. So just lie.

IMHO, that's bad advice (see other comments about not burning bridges).

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2017-01-26

I don't know if you actually want to use this phrase...

But to me, it's like this: If they guarantee, in writing, in a contract that gives you recourse if they fail to perform, that they will hire you, then it's reasonable for them to ask you to give them, in an enforceable contract, your promise that you won't look elsewhere. If they're not giving you that kind of guarantee, your answer should be "no", however politely worded.

In dollar terms, how much does your boss value your commitment?

What if you want to explore a different area of technology? It would be very unreasonable to not talk to other companies and limit yourself to the same tech.

Why are you limiting yourself to one city?

I really like the city i'm in, and want to stay here a couple more years is all.

My boss has expressed that if funding was available, I would be salaried and offered a full time position. The issue is that the company may never get that much funding, it's all dependent on how successful they are at selling the product.

"My boss has expressed that if funding was available, I would be salaried and offered a full time position"

In writing?

"The issue is that the company may never get that much funding"

Which means that you MAY be out of a job, and you didnt apply elsewhere. You have savings? It sounds like they know that you MAY be out of a job, and are asking you to not have other options. You MAY not like that.

"it's all dependent on how successful they are at selling the product"

Something like 9/10 startups fail...

Additionally, remember that random people on the internet are not lawyers. I have only taken 1 semester of law in college, and even I hear some ridiculous things people think are true. If you cant afford a lawyer, then you cant afford to be out of a job.

"I'm crossing my fingers that I'll be able to work with you this summer but in the meantime I have this whole "eating and living indoors" habit to support."

And BTW if you are a developer in the US, $22hr is easily 1/2 what a real job would pay. Companies tend to not give a raise to market rate if they get you "cheap" initially. Absolutely do shop around and find your market value. I think you might see why they'd love to keep you on after you graduate.

I'd add that there are a lot of shops that run on cheap intern labor. One of the tells is if nobody ever transitions from intern to full time work.

Are you an employee (W-2) or contractor (1099)? In the latter case there is an expectation that you have multiple "clients". In either case, if this happened to me I would talk (as in, in your next 1:1 meeting or phone call), not by email, to communicate that at this point I need to keep my options open but if that ends up happening then it sounds great -- and also my hourly rate at that point will change to $(22 + X).

A bit off-topic, but why are you calling it an internship? It sounds more like a part-time job.

1) It is illegal for them to ask as some have surely pointed out already. 2)$22 is shit pay. Junior devs in NYC make 50. 3)These people are exploiting you and unless you have kids to feed, you should quit immediately.

>It is illegal for them to ask as some have surely pointed out already.

Just curious, what law does this break?

Your boss:

"Hey! We're giving you a bad employment deal, so don't talk to anyone else, so you don't figure it iut"

don't say anything, just apply elsewhere

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