Help: Suicide note on blog
dennisforbes.ca
dennisforbes.ca
This story seems to have gotten flagged. It's not showing up on the front page. [Edit]: yes [Flagged] is showing up on this story.
I was just asking who the person was since I am not familiar with his work.
If my comment conveyed a different meaning, that was not the intention.
For all the interesting things the anglo countries offer, this is one of those things that concern me. Many people I know in the Netherlands and Spain were in the same situation. A very good friend of mine owes the bank E400k and has a house to sell at this moment. In Spain. The bank wanted to foreclose months ago but the judge blocked it giving her 2 years to get her affairs in order to start paying mortgage again (mortgage was not paid for over a year). It seems far more humane than what I read about anglo countries where you can end up living on the streets even without a drug habit. I know money money but as I get older I value humane far more than money. Then again, I am not sure if I think this way about uk/ca/us/au (esp US though) because of the many media hyped up posts. Maybe it is not that bad but reading things like this...
Edit: many foreclosures happen in Spain but that is mostly because people do not know that they can fight them or do not want the hassle
Edit2: post flagged? Is it fake? Does not matter for the responses here; actual people think about and do this every day. I had too many friends and family take their lives but none of them did it because of money. Broke here (correct me if I am wrong please!) is not the same as broke there.
Humane again... You cannot be fired for that here. Which is how it should be IMHO.
I've been close to this sort of situation before, with a six figure tax debt that I thought I could never pay out. Several incredibly tough years later, I have paid out that debt and am well ahead. I often look back at that dark patch in my life and am glad I never took the option that I thought was my only recourse while in that particular mindset.
Things can get better. The worst of times will pass. I wish I could talk to this guy and tell him my story face to face.
Whatever deity or cosmic force you believe in - hope/wish/pray that it delays this man's decision so that someone can save him.
The cry for help stuff is annoying, too. I didn't contact anyone last night because either I cause more emotional harm (they don't stop me) or I'm just an drama-causing guy that is so unstable of course his kids can't be around him.
I used to think this was a silly response until I was in the situation. Maybe things would have gotten for this guy, maybe not.
please reach out to family, friends, anyone and to talk through any problems
In my experience, when you are in that state of mind that suicide seems the only/easiest option, then there is NO WAY that you are thinking of the best outcomes for other people in your life.
You not ever being there for your kids ever again is NOT a better option that you being there broken, but still there for them to be able to actually tell you how they feel and listen to you. Not even close.
You will be far too enmeshed in your own feelings of hopelessness and loss to be able to think clearly. You NEED someone who can look at the 'helicopter view' objectively and bring a new perspective to your mental state. Even a complete stranger who is empathetic can do that. They don't even need to say much - just listen to YOU saying it. The act of talking it out can help on a massive level.
My kids were very young when I went through my patch about 15 years ago. I look at them now and think about all the incredibly wonderful things I would have missed if I was not here.
Go. Talk to someone. Now.
More people will help you than you think. Friends, family, colleagues. Try to find a friend that went through more or less the same situation, getting dumped by the one he/she loved.
You can mail me at koen@koonsolo.com.
> I’m okay.
> Months of incredible levels of stress, coupled with weeks of little sleep, yielded some deeply irrational, illogical thinking that I of course regret, but can’t erase from my timeline. And for any sort of intellectual exercise, like software development, no sleep+stress = a recursive loop of ineffectiveness that generates more stress and even less sleep.
> I apologize to those I distressed, from family to remote individuals who I’ve never met but who cared. This is my first opportunity to post anything on this, and the lack of communications wasn’t an intentional act of dramatic exercise.
Someone in Canada here that can help out? The whois for the domain lists the following:
Name: Dennis Forbes Postal address: 2273 Britannia Rd Burlington ON L7P0E8 Canada Phone: +1.9053158373
It seems so simple. Just don't spend it.
It's like my Mom's voice calling out to us as I ran out the door in high school.
"Don't sin!"
She had long given up trying to lay out a long list of things we shouldn't do and distilled everything into the most essential kernal.
"Sure mom, I'll get right on that"
For a month I can be really, really good. And then there's a closeout on new Canon lenses at B&H and it's all over.
What an idiot.
Soon enough, it all adds up and like Dennis, you have a couple of medical bills or a job go south and the ship just sinks around you.
Nobody cares and there's nothing you can do.
But it's obvious to me after reading this thread that our community DOES CARE and will reach out desperately to help.
Our self worth is far greater than some crappy shack.
The lives we touch and the memories we make mean so much more than the possessions we have.
The pain I feel inside for Dennis is touched only by the willingness of this team to reach out and help him.
I hope we can assist his family in some way.
https://www.haltonpolice.ca/ 905-825-4777
They are not trained to handle it at all.
What would be the right thing to do here?
But regarding a stranger thousands of miles away? When every second counts? The police seem like the best option.
Firstly, as others have mentioned, you don't really have better options besides (perhaps?) trying to find/call relatives. If you call EMTs they won't report without police (for good reason), if you call a local hospital (of any kind) they will just tell you to call the police.
Secondly, police absolutely do get training to handle mental health issues and get training to specifically handle this situation. (http://www.nami.org/Law-Enforcement-and-Mental-Health/What-I...)
Thirdly, this is Canada. While I'm sure the level of CIT training penetration in the USA is not ideal, I would imagine that Canadian police are far better and will show up with Canadian bacon and maple syrup and some tim hortons coffee and make it all better.
I wouldn't assume that's true everywhere.
Whether or not they recall and follow through on their training, that is another story.
Please, if you think a friend or family member is on the verge of suicide, do seek the assistance of the police. They considered to be on the edge of suicide if the answer to the questions below are "yes".
1. Do you have thoughts about killing yourself?
2. Do you have a plan to kill yourself?
3. Do you have a means to kill yourself? (Purchasing a knife or gun for example)
If the answer to all three questions are in the affirmative (or even if it's one or two out of three), seek help. Do not leave them alone unless your safety is threatened. Call a suicide prevention line, call the local authorities, call a family member; do all three.
How do you know this?
I have a reasonable understanding of the rules and training in both the US and in Canada (because I've worked with many Canadians).
While I haven't had the (mis)fortune of working in a rig full time due to my other work, I have spent quite a bit of time working as a medic in large cities (San Francisco), abroad in other countries (Cambodia and Vietnam), and in the ED.
This is a fairly basic subject for most first responders.
I want to add to my first post:
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is:
1-800-273-8255
24/7, your call will be answered.
Also, if you head to their website, you can chat via text with them if you don't feel like talking:
http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineCh...
On that website, there are some great resources.
There is nobody else to call when someone is telling the world they're going to commit suicide, where is your compassion? I don't even know this guy, never read his blog and I live in another country, but reading that post and the "love" one he posted with photos of his children, that hits me right in the chest. I feel compelled to try and do something.
Police aren't just there for tending to crimes, they are there to serve and protect the community and in this case, protect someone in the community from themselves who is clearly suffering from immense mental stress and needs help.
The way society deals with people who clearly are suffering from mental illness needs to change. There are so many people out there just like him working in tech and non-tech alike feeling the same, sadly many don't get heard or the help they need. Remember Aaron Swartz?
It's easy for people to say, "he should tell someone, he should tell his wife" when they've never experienced mental illness before. It's easy to be uncompassionate when you're lucky to be a normal functioning human being.
Seriously though, if even one person avoids calling trained professionals off the back of this, you might have cost somebody their life.
If you need help please get it. Here is one resource:
http://www.headquarterscounselingcenter.org/
Disclaimer, I'm on tbe Board of Directors. But if not this resource please get help from somewhere. There are people here for you.
People are reporting that it was too late, however the block post is gone, and I've yet to see an obit posted in any of the locals around here.
There's more to this.
(emphasis his)
EDIT 2016-01-24: Hello readers. This page is seeing dozens of uniques per day from non-bots. Whether it’s interested parties or just people casually entertained I don’t know, but I will say that if you’re thinking about this contact me now (dforbes@yafla.com). My window of options is incredibly tiny at this point.
Then tonight I read the Love post and thought it was rather touching until I got to this one. Then it fell into place.
I've followed his blog for years but otherwise don't know him personally. I'm sick to my stomach.
http://whois.domaintools.com/dennisforbes.ca
Call ???
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
This is obviously a very sad and tragic story – no warm-blooded person could dispute that.
But it's a private matter to be dealt with by police and his loved ones.
No doubt people are generally well-intentioned in thinking that having this case discussed here may be beneficial, but for other people the interest is likely to be voyeuristic, and for it to be a topic of public discussion is insensitive and risks causing further distress to his family.
We hear too much of the "overnight success zillionaires who came out of nowhere with a killer web app" or the couple of 14 year old kids who coded a mobile game in their spare time and now make $50K per day on the app stores.
But what we don't hear for every one of those is the thousands who slog away, burn through their life savings, run out of mortgage options and feel the frustration of building something with zero customers - just like Dennis did in the lead up to this terrible event.
When all you hear is the good stuff, and you are struggling, then it can seem like the problem is entirely YOU, and the abject feelings of failure are strong indeed.
But speaking to others who are running the same grind, you suddenly realise that you are NOT alone, and you are NOT doing everything wrong. There still may be no easy solution, but the problems shared are indeed problems halved.
Ask me how I know? I've been there and back several times. It is not nice.
I would hope that HN starts a trend for open honesty in this industry.
I understand the shock of encountering something like this, and how it can spur us to reflect more deeply on our own situation. Those are natural and good reactions. But we need to be careful about going any further, and large internet communities aren't capable of being careful that way.
That interpretive spin illustrates why we shouldn't have such discussions here. Treating someone's suicide as grist for internet arguments just can't lead anywhere good.
which was a long time ago :( It is probably too late :(
NEVER ever risk so much that you're family will be left homeless. The minute you had kids and a wife is the minute you chose to never be able to risk everything for bigger gains.
Also, this post sobered me up from the dream of buying a $500K home. I'll be getting a $250k and paying off that sucker ASAP.
This is why our IT industry needs to make better support for the mentally ill, rather than vilify us and cause people to hide their mental illnesses.
What I did see (and others did too) was a post about need $600k - needing a lump sum, then working on something and paying it all back from the 'riches' of the project. Now.. the 'riches' part may have been somewhat tongue in cheek, perhaps, but he was really going for some "go big go home" sort of project, and that didn't work out.
Now's probably not quite the time to criticize (and I'm not criticizing him), but when is there a good time? Dennis seemed to get caught up in the belief in "big payout tech projects". This isn't to say they don't happen, but Dennis' isn't the first story I've read of people "shooting big", then ending up in deep debt, deep despair, considering suicide. We don't read about these much - we generally read about the continuing waves of billion-dollar unicorns fronted by people continually younger than ourselves. It's gotta wear some people down.
I just bumped in to some folks a few days ago who are (independently) "buckling down" on their big "game changing" projects. While I only know these folks socially, if the projects fail, and one ends up taking his life (or even considering it), I will not be overly surprised (saddened, yes). But there's little I can do.
People chasing web/tech/app riches then falling in to debt/despair has got to be the unspoken plague of this industry.
EDIT: looks like his most recent project was Gallus: https://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2017/01/24/gallus-lessons-... And while that looked like it was going to pay off in a sale, the buyer got acquired and everything got put on hold. The house eviction may have pushed him over the edge?
We don't know what his relationship with his wife is, or what his capacity is to ask for help or to organize and execute a crowdfunding campaign(!).
A very unfortunate irony of mental illness is that it interferes with the person's emotional and cognitive ability to solve their problems. It's like telling someone with a broken leg that they 'should' run and get help. But at least with a broken leg you have the capacity and will to figure out what you want to do and to try to do it.
Especially in the last few days, if he was arranging for a sale of the house, that would necessitate a move. Certainly wouldn't be unheard of to spring this last minute, but I suspect he'd prepped the family for a move, and likely would have needed his wife's signatures on some paperwork at minimum (canada may be different than the US states I've lived in).