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Comment by pjmlp | Hacker News Reader

> Yet, we have a supremely weird tendency to identify as some sort of labor slaves.

Depends where on earth you live.

I can assure you that while some of my Asian friends doing offshore consulting do have a much better life than many of their country fellows, the way they are seen by the western companies hiring them is not much different from the old colonial days.

Also those of us that are lucky to live in countries that have working IT unions, e.g. in Germany, do see the difference.

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What benefits do you get from your union, and what are the fees/responsibilities that go with it? I've heard this before, never really heard what the details are though.

I pay about 1200 a year. I have full health benefits, defined benefit pension, and 7 hour work day. If I want (and I do) I can work an extra 49 minutes per day, and take every second Friday off. I start with 15 days holiday, but after working there for 8 years now, I'm up to 22 days holiday (plus 13 stat holidays, and 26 extra days in lieu of those 49 minutes). Any overtime has to be pre-approved, and is paid out at time and a half. If it's over a stat holiday it's at 2.5. Never need to negotiate pay raises because pay is set for the position. Union negotiates the pay raises for cost of living increases. There are benefits and drawbacks, I wouldn't trade the time off though for more money.

> If I want (and I do) I can work an extra 49 minutes per day, and take every second Friday off

God. That would change my life so thoroughly it makes me want to shout.

In addition to what soperj has answered.

Any overtime gets paid either in money or free time.

Working beyond 10 hours on a day requires authorization and is extra paid.

If doing crushes over lengthy time periods happens due to bad management, it can be reported to the government activities overseeing labor laws.

Any expat temporarily working in local projects gets the same work rights as anyone else, regardless of what international companies "think" about labor laws. Failure to comply can be reported to respective authorities.

Working over weekends requires special approvals and is properly compensated.

Support for fighting against management, when they "think" they know better than what labor laws state about worker rights.

> Any overtime gets paid either in money or free time.

> Working beyond 10 hours on a day requires authorization and is extra paid.

> Working over weekends requires special approvals and is properly compensated.

I'm amazed that you believe you require a union to ensure proper compensation in a country like Germany?

Is it because you're a contractor rather than an employee or some similar sillyness?

Why isn't being paid for your time the default?

Because what the law says and what many employers think that they can get away with, isn't the same thing.

I thought unions were a form of collective bargaining to benefit the employee.

Surely they're not required to get an employer to follow the law. Isn't there a better way?

> Isn't there a better way?

Sadly not that I am aware of.

Either you go alone with a lawyer, or get some muscle beyond you.

For example, even for simple matters like vacations, many people are actually unaware what are their rights, benefits, obligations and how much control the employer has over them.

Many just take the simple route and believe whatever their boss tells them, instead of checking what the law actually says.

Because these things happen all the time, including in Germany, and not just to immigrant workers:

http://www.equaltimes.org/exploitation-of-migrant-workers?la...

https://www.thelocal.de/20150602/eu-reports-widespread-abuse...

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/30/germ-a30.html

For me it can be summed up to actually having a work/life balance and feeling respected as a professional compared to when I was doing about a minimum of 2h extra unpaid work per day with non existing holidays and sick leave in $SOUTHERN_EUROPEAN_COUNTRY.

It's easy to drink the valley kool-aid and laugh at unions when your economy is booming.

I pay £18/mo to be a member of Prospect, a non-party-affiliated union. The main benefits to me are legal representation in case I were to get entangled with my employer (not particularly likely). However I mainly do it to support their aims and campaigns.

One of the primary functions of unions in the Netherlands is collective bargaining. Every sector has sort of a "base contract", and the union negotiates basic raises and job perks for everyone employed in that sector.

But what are your earnings? Serious question, not trying to antagonize. There is still a tradeoff, right? Those in the valley work like dogs but there's also a lot of money out there.

Unions.. please.

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