Ripped off by oDesk | Hacker News Reader

Ripped off by oDesk

rippedoffbyodesk.com

9 pointscpg10 comments

I've used outsourced and offshore developers quite a bit, spread over 5+ years. From this, I heartily recommend:

* For projects of substantial time and complexity, pay by the hour. You might like to get a bid and a complete system on a fixed date from a supplier across the planet, but realistically you will probably be left disappointed.

* Hire individuals, to work on your team, rather than hiring a firm/team.

* Manage the project yourself, or at least hire someone nearby (with whom you have a close cultural match) to manage it.

Outsourcing whole projects to an outside firm can work. My own firm supplies this service, with good results, and so do many others. But I've mostly see it fail when the outsource firm is around the world. That's a shame, because I've worked with quite a few really excellent developers who happen to be around the world.

I got burned by providers in oDesk and oDesk siding with the (rather unprofessional) provider. Did a search and it looks like there is a rash of people like me.

Any experiences on how to manage things more tightly?

I was able to cut the bleeding early, but it could have been 5 times more if I were a bit more forgiving, sadly.

That sucks. This is a could be a huge blow to oDesk. If oDesk can't guarantee, they should be put to shame for assuring users and using that language on their websites or documentations.

Finding reputable/trustworthy offshore development is very difficult. oDesk is suppose to minimize that risk, no?

oDesk collects a small fraction of the cost as their markup. This small fraction, is often of fairly small amounts. There is no possible way that they could provide a guarantee of project success, even if they tried.

That said, I think oDesk does a great job, of what they do (which is NOT to guarantee project success).

I tried leaving a comment on the site, and looks like the guy deleted my comment as it hasn't shown up.

I have been a provider on oDesk and been ripped off by the client.

It's hard to compete with the prices of the Indians / Chinese developers, and their "estimated completion times" are always far too optimistic.

When I put a bid in on a project which is realistic (both price and timescale) I guarantee I never win an interview.

Some guy hires a company through oDesk, possibly asks for undeliverable specs and pays very little, doesn't get the stuff delivered and the goes on and sues the marketplace because of the outcome? That's as absurd as suing ebay or craigslist if you don't like some stuff you buy there!

I'm sure most on HN would agree that you get what you pay for in outsourcing and oDesk has little liability. However, in your comparison to eBay, I'm not sure it holds and there may be a lesson here for how online marketplaces evolve. The last 6 purchases I've made through eBay resulted in products delivered that were not as represented. What did I do? Well, the first time, I had about 4 email exchanges with the seller and decided it wasn't worth $30 (what I paid) to deal with ebay or the seller. The subsequent times (all in the last 12 months) I also decided not to deal with it. The result: I only buy on eBay now as a last resort. Its not absurd to expect the marketplace to ensure, within reason, the quality of its sellers.

> The last 6 purchases I've made through eBay resulted in products delivered that were not as represented.

Wow, really? Six in a row? I've participated in hundreds of transactions through eBay (over the years) and I can only think of three that I was ever dissatisfied didn't meet the description, or that the description didn't reveal things I considered important (and bad). Two of them were transactions under $10, including shipping.

Can I ask what sort of things you were buying, and what sort of costs were involved (one, you said was $30)?

The last 4 were copies of Windows XP. You simply can't buy XP retail anymore and I have clients with old PCs that must be reinstalled. Perhaps software purchases is a corner case. Each time, I chose a different seller, each with a "top seller" reputation. I only purchase items listed as unused original XP SP3. The variations from as advertised were: never as pictured in the ad, no SP3, SP3 on a separate CD (a CD clearly not produced by MS or any other reputable vendor), a product key that had been used, a Dell install disk with key attached from something else.

The first item was for a vintage cocktail shaker. It was listed in mint condition. I bought it for a friend's birthday. I received the shaker: it had no lid to the pour spout. The email exchange went something like this: "I received the shaker, the cap to the pour spout is missing...did you forget to pack it?"..."Cap? It didn't have a cap, I sent everything."..."How can you use this as a shaker if it has no cap?"..."Oh sorry, I know nothing about cocktail shakers, I didn't think to put in my listing that the cap was missing."..."You claim to have been selling antiques for 20 years, how could you not know this? ok, I'd like to return it"..."hmmm...its been past 7 days now, I don't accept returns past 7 days"... This was also a top rated seller with "super duper best seller" comments.

I have had some good experiences with oDesk, but even those ended with the providers "disappearing" somewhat mysteriously.

I think oDesk encourages ripoffs.

From their home page: Christine, Independent contractor, Enjoys automatic, guaranteed payment"

It helps them, at the risk of alienating the people who pay.

Wonder if that will last.

I for one went to Elance just to try!

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