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Comment by Keverw | Hacker News Reader

I wonder how the USDS is different than the 18F? Seems like they both are doing the same thing, why not just merge them?

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USDS and 18F serve in pretty different roles. USDS often comes in when there's a crisis or a high presidential priority, because the organization sits in the office of the President. 18F is located in the General Services Administration and is especially strong when looking at the medium- to long-term goals of an organization. I'd also say that 18F thinks more about culture change than many parts of the USDS.

They also have different funding mechanisms that lead to different operating models. USDS funding comes out of a budget called ITOR and we can represent a source of "free" engineers for an agency. 18F operates on a cost-recoverable model where an agency is paying for help or services.

There are other, smaller differences too. For example, it's typically easier to work remotely for 18F than for USDS.

From a distance, the organizations both look like "tech in government," but I think they operate better separately. I have enormous respect for the folks in 18F, and the two orgs have collaborated on things like the US Web Design Standards: https://standards.usa.gov/

Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious since I know I have seen posts about 18F here on HN before which sounded like very similar work. This is the first time I heard of USDS and as an outsider to government tech, they both looked the same to me. But that makes totally sense to me now, sounds like with the different funding and offices they work on slightly different projects and problems then but still tech.

Plus I remember at one point Obama was talking about duplicate agencies/programs and consolidating them. Then Trump talks about "cutting the fat", but I do see how being separate in this case actually seems like it helps.

* I work at 18F

I think the press articles that sometimes lump it all together can be frustrating at times and I like Matt's descriptions above. Another important difference: when USDS attends a meeting it's the "White House" in the room, whereas 18F sitting in GSA (which does other things like support government real estate) gives us a different context.

We both, though, benefit immensely from strong civil servants that partner with us. There's a narrative out there that "silicon valley" people have come to DC to "rescue" all of the government, when many people in both orgs have government experience (or come from the non-profit sector). Our work is impossible without partners throughout government who know a policy space and are ready to benefit from different tools and processes, and I wish those folks (or even just the tools and processes such as http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-12-681) got more attention than the "hero narrative."

I couldn't agree more with this.

Here's a write-up on the differences (and similarities) that I've found: http://ben.balter.com/2015/04/22/the-difference-between-18f-....

For clarity: I found the write-up. Credit for listing the differences obviously needs to go to Ben.

This was written not long after USDS was founded, and I recall thinking even then that many of his comparisons were not entirely accurate. The comments you read here are going to be more complete and up to date.

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