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Comment by School-Cotton | Hacker News Reader

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer.

Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount.

I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France's only slightly lower. But the difference (for people working at top tech jobs) is so extreme that no amount of free university and pensions can make up for it.

Even if I have to save for my retirement, save for my hypothetical children's future education, and so on, I'm still making a lot more in the US than I would in France.

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>I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016.

What do you do?

I am a software engineer at a top tech company.

Netflix in the Bay Area?

No, but my guess is that they pay similarly well.

My guess is that they pay much more.

Well, maybe. I really have no idea. But even if I could get a job there and make more money, I strongly prefer not to leave NYC for the Bay Area.

If s/he works for a public company, this is totally in line with total compensation at that experience level after you factor in stock. There are many places where you can get this level of comp. Of course, your stock package has to be worth something -- this person is almost certainly not getting over $200K in base salary alone, and if they are I would echo your question -- "what do you do?" -- and add another -- "who do you do it for?"

Yes, this includes stock, which is effectively the same as cash to me since I always sell it immediately when it vests. (Not because I don't believe in my company, but just because I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket)

Yes indeed; for senior engineers base salary approaches $200k, excluding bonuses and RSUs/options. RSUs are in the $50-$200k/year range depending on many factors. The general expectation is a top-up at least 50% of signing RSUs per year each year, so as the vesting periods stack up you can end up earning more in stock in years 4+ than in salary.

YMMV on all this. A new college grad isn't going to get that kind of deal in most cases. It also helps to interview and get multiple offers. Once hired you're typically expected to work hard and demonstrate the value you add to the business.

He probably included the extra stuff, like equity, bonuses etc. and not just the salary.

Of course, why wouldn't I?

I immediately sell all the equity I get, so it's effectively the same as cash.

> This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France.

Plenty of people make more than they do though. These are not especially high-paying positions, they're not even the highest paying government positions.

> get cancer, or accident, or kids

> financial life ruined

in the EU, not so much.

Did you miss the part where he said he had health insurance paid for by his employer?

.. which is usually capped. So you are covered for minor incidents, but anything above 200k (or whatever the cap is) will completely fuck you up. Because anything that will have that much cost will also be something serious enough to incapacitate you for a long time and leave you without income. EU healthcare usually doesn't have cap, nor a deductible of thousands of dollars.

...and has "preexisting conditions" clauses, right ? This doesn't exist in France.

No, there are no per-exisitng conditions clauses anymore.

This is not even remotely true at all. Have you ever looked at a health insurance plan in the US?

That's not true. Obamacare eliminated lifetime caps. Small and medium size companies often had $1 million lifetime caps but large companies have negotiating power and typically had no pre-existing condition exclusion periods and no lifetime caps (or something insane like $10 million). Under Obamacare all US health insurance plans have no lifetime caps and no pre-existing condition exclusions.

Obamacare is going to get completely eviscerated by the combination of a Republican President and a Republican Senate..

In addition to the other comments, I wanted to point out that many employers also provide Short Term and Long Term Disability Insurance, which would cover the "incapacitate you for a long time and leave you without income" scenario.

You seem to have no idea how health insurance works.

Any good healthcare plan, especially post-ACA, will not have a cap like that.

People way overvalue free healthcare. Yes, it would be nice but it's nowhere near worth the salary differential.

I pay $160/m for my health care. It's a high deductible plan, but even if I were to reach the deductible every year then my total expenses would be $9,070=(160*12)+7,150.

The compensation differential between the US and Europe is way more than $10k.

Absolutely. A lot of people seem to have almost a religious deference for free healthcare. I'm young, disease free so I've only minimal healthcare costs. Losing out >$100K/year on salary in exchange of free healthcare seems like a stupendously bad deal to me.

Any big tech company in SV offer amazing health insurance. I've never heard anyone say they had rouble with coverage/pre-existing condition/deductible/copay.

>I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France.

This kind of braggadocio statement is why the hate for tech workers is growing. It shows a serious lack of perspective and an incredible amount of arrogance and condescension.

It's also very untypical, even for a skilled tech worker in America.

We are literally in a forum discussing tech worker salaries.

Yes, I make an amount of money that puts me in an extremely high percentile relative to the world population. But pointing that out in a context where it's completely relevant is just conversation, not bragging.

Do you think I go around showing my W2 to random financially struggling strangers, or something? I don't.

By the way it's not as atypical as you might think, for top tech/finance jobs in the Bay Area or NYC. I know lots of people making these salaries, at companies other than mine.

As an aside: I didn't make any claims at all about whether I thought my pay was high or low, fair or unfair, whether I deserved more, how it compared to anyone else's in any other industry, etc. etc., so why exactly are you claiming I "lack perspective"? I don't think I displayed either perspective or lack thereof with my totally neutral statements.

This is great. Though I must say that more than few people here believe they deserve $200K+ pay for next generation CRUD app.

There are more than a few people that believe they deserve $1m+ for throwing or kicking a ball. I hope you look down on them as well.

This kind of statement helps people understand the challenges France is going to have in luring the top software-engineers away from America. I know it hurts people's ego when they hear someone with less experience making more than them, but put that aside and recognize that it adds to the discussion.

Weren't a some people pushing for more people to talk about their compensation?

If he or she works for a Google or a Yahoo, lives in a place like NYC, and has an advanced degree, it might be quite average.

I, for one, would appreciate it if more people would talk compensation.

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