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Comment by vorotato | Hacker News Reader

Regaining control of your attention doesn't mean not using your phone. It means being self-aware. The author is relying on a crutch. Not using the phone is just removing a single source of distraction, it does nothing to actually help attention regulation. It's like saying, I fixed my impulse issues by never walking in to gas stations, so now I don't have to worry about buying lottery tickets! You didn't fix your impulse issues, they're still 100% there.

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The "impulse issues" are reinforced by the phone. I've very often noticed when I've set aside my phone for a few hours (the rest of the evening until bed or whatever) that I have to literally set it aside at some distance from myself because otherwise it ends up in my hand without my even consciously deciding to check it. It's like a reflex. And then once it's safely at a distance, I repeatedly experience the urge to check it whenever I don't happen to be very focused on something else. The frequency of that urge diminishes over the course of a few hours and is accompanied by an increase in my ability to focus on something else for stretches of time. Sometimes I've even taken a weekend offline completely, and the effects are even more pronounced, and they last beyond the offline time. This is what the author means by "attention is a muscle". It's not that there's some baseline impulse issue and the device is merely an outlet. The device is causing the issue, or at least exacerbating it.

The device aggravates this issue only because the author is unconscious enough that they aren't even aware they are making a decision to use or not use the phone. While it may be a necessary step to take a break from something that captures your attention, it's important to be able to be aware of your behavior and your desires independent of the context. A person should be mindful when they choose to spend time on the phone of what they are deciding to consume. The phone is not a magical device, it just has a lower effort barrier and so unconscious behavior is easier. It doesn't mean one can't be aware of what they're doing while using it. It also doesn't mean that one can't use the device while developing awareness.

I think we pretty much agree here. For me the best way to remain aware is to periodically abstain, and the effects on my awareness persist after the abstinence.

I turned of notifications of all kinds 99% of them were not worth clicking. I do periodically abstain, but I when I do use I try to stay self-aware. I mentally keep track of how long I've spent, and what I spent my time doing. I then periodically ask if I thought the previous 15 minutes was spent doing something I was interested in or if I was just on autopilot / guided by clickbait. I still use my phone a LOT, but I definitely am doing more of what I enjoy, and reading things that are more meaningful to me.

All good tips.

I've been using QualityTime (Android only, I think: http://www.qualitytimeapp.com/) to measure and track usage daily. Seeing it quantified was a bit of a shock even though I thought I was doing a good job of mentally monitoring myself.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'm going to try that out. On the Desktop I use RescueTime which has helped a bit.

There are natural "goldfish" states during the day plus procrastination peaks when the current task is very unpleasant. Because of them I keep my phone in 3 meters from my workplace and leisure sites like HN - on a laptop in another room.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

Early next week I'm switching to a 2G feature phone with no camera. I'm sure I'll be visiting HN (and a handful of other sites) much less, I'm sure there will be some withdrawal, but I'm also sure that I won't miss anything and that I'll be much calmer and more focused. I've thought about this for a few years, really since i first got a smartphone, and I'm persuaded that they are a problem, not a solution.

I've been seriously considering this lately. The camera and a location-based game that gets me out walking around periodically throughout the day are the two things I'm not sure I can give up at this point.

There are lots of feature phones with cameras. In fact, it's hard to find phones without them.

No GPS was a difficult feature to find as well, but desirable for reducing the data footprint available to third parties.

I go walking without a phone now.

> There are lots of feature phones with cameras.

I'd love to find one with a decent camera. I have a fairly nice and compact point-and-shoot that I bought a couple of years ago, but it doesn't have a lot of the software-assisted processing that makes it so easy to take good pics with my (midrange) smartphone.

If you're using a iOS device, take a look at Apple Configurator. I blocked Safari and a few other time-sink apps with it and noticed a extreme reduction in habitual phone usage. It's mainly a texting/messaging device with a few critical apps (Mint, Messenger, RBC, Notes) installed. It's a happy medium between a full on feature phone.

As far as calm goes, I started writing again instead of consuming HN all day.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/apple-configurator-2/id10371...

As I was reading this comment, I realized that I had picked up my phone and gone on Hacker News almost subconsciously, while in a lecture at school.

I don't think I'd have as strong of an outlet for constant distraction without my phone.

In a meeting today someone noted with amusement that I was both the youngest person in the room and the only one taking notes on paper instead of a laptop. This is why: I can't always trust myself to stay focused when I'm on the laptop. As soon as I'm bored or uninterested for a moment, my damned fingers will - seemingly of their own volition - flip to a browser, open a new tab, and take me to HN or worse.

Interestingly, that is the opposite of what I've seen in the scientific literature.

Trait self-control seems to better relate to removing temptations from our lives via planning rather than having a high threshold for resistance. People who identify as "having good self-control" tend to have fewer strong desires and weaker resistance. Tellingly, trait self-control also doesn't seem to change the relationship between resistance and enactment. So people with self-control are just as likely to succumb to temptation when it is present, but less likely to be confronted by temptation in the first place.

Check out Hofmann et al. Everyday Temptations for an example (2011).

I'm not arguing that people need better self control, just that they need to be aware of what they're doing so they can do what they want. There's nothing wrong with browsing facebook for 10 hours if that's what you wanted to do each step of the way. This isn't like abstaining from something you want, it's choosing between two things you want.

There is a very critical flaw in that though, people who identify as having good self-control don't necessarily actually have good self-control. Just like people who identify at being good at basketball aren't necessarily good at basketball. That doesn't imply one can't get better at playing basketball through practice.

I was not quite precise saying it is self-reported; it was measured through a 10 item questionnaire that is self reported. Still, it's not watertight (as is often the case in psychology research). I'm just encouraging you to consider that your view may be flawed or incomplete, that's all.

Also, I'm not recommending not to abstain. I'm only pointing out that abstaining alone will not develop practice in executive control and attention regulation. If the phone is too attention grabbing, there are other ways of developing attention regulation.

> The Author is relying on a crutch... You still didn't fix the underlying issues

So?

This would be an actionable observation if it was possible for someone with the problem to fix the underlying issues. But neurology just isn't there yet. Until it is, your best bet is crutches like the author uses or:

- https://selfcontrolapp.com/

- https://freedom.to/

Alongside getting 9 hours of sleep at the same time every night and 30 minutes of vigorous exercise every day.

I mean sure if you have a mental health condition like ADHD, but studies have shown that most with ADHD can still steer their awareness it's just much harder. If you literally cannot be aware of your behavior while using your phone, that's a issue, and medicine can help. Healthy adults can be self aware it just takes some conscious effort. Many with ADHD (especially with the help of medication) can become more aware of their behavior through practice often paired with cognitive behavioral therapy, and live happier more reposeful lives while still using their phones.

Those tools are valuable but a lot harder to access and more expensive.

Sure. That's very true. CBT can be done and has shown some success with lay practitioners in non-american countries. However that's not as widely available. Awareness meditation is also looking hopeful for ADHD, but more evidence needs to come up for it to be definitively conclusive.

I'm not saying don't use the tools you talked about. I'm not saying don't take breaks from consumption. Just next time you do choose to consume try to maintain awareness of what you're doing. You might find some small success in guiding what you choose to do.

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying don't use crutches. People with broken legs should use crutches. Just don't use crutches after you gain the ability to walk without them. I do think it's better to every 10 minutes try to question what you did, and whether it was something you wanted to do, or did because you were on autopilot rather than just turning the device off.

Your advice has some very useful aspects to it. However, It's good to be practical. If removing distractions entirely is noticeably helpful, then why not do it on occasion?

One can also work on increasing self-awareness at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive. I would guess that a combination of both approaches would be beneficial for most people. I've personally found benefits from both approaches.

A better analogy is alcoholics who go completely sober. You could argue that it's merely a matter of self-discipline to just have one drink and not get hammered, but... if it's easier to just stop drinking altogether, what's wrong with that?

Quitting the internet on your phone is much the same. It's no merely a matter of discipline, it's a matter of addiction.

You can't tell someone they're doing it wrong if what they're doing works for them. At the very least, if you aim to convince someone of a better way, you can't lead with that statement.

I mean reducing the negative impacts of being out of control is great, but the technology didn't make the author out of control. The author was out of control before the technology got there, and the technology merely empowered him in a way that aggravated his pre-existing condition.

The solution is to develop awareness.

Hear. Hear. Such habits are only bad if they are used as a means to avoid important problems. Attend to those problems! Then the habit will continue or die away according to its merits.

His solution extends beyond his phone. This was the solution he came up with:

    * The internet goes off before bed.

    * The internet doesn’t return until after lunch.

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