Square mobile payment system goes live on iPhone, iPad, and Android this week | Hacker News Reader

Square mobile payment system goes live on iPhone, iPad, and Android this week

engadget.com

46 pointsthere45 comments

Square is pretty cool. I dislike the SSN requirement, though, and haven't yet setup my account because of it. I know some of the actual people involved with Square, and I trust they did a good job protecting this stuff, but it still seems wrong that I need to register an SSN to accept payments from a card but not if the person happens to be using, say, cash or a check. Why is accepting a card so different?

Square is assuming all of the chargeback risk. They mitigate that by verifying your credit history.

You have to do the same thing when signing up for a regular credit card gateway too.

The difference is credit. When processing a credit card, because fraud is so rampant, Square needs to at least somewhat vet the merchant.

In fact, the defining characteristic of Square seems to be how LITTLE you need to do to get a merchant account. You have almost certainly never tried with conventional systems if you think this is bad.

Exactly. Setting up a conventional gateway and merchant account takes weeks at best, complete with several contracts, credit check, authorization forms, and several rounds of changes to your website if you're taking payments online.

Yeah, but not with PayPal's "Website Payments Pro". It does usually take 2-3 days, but it's really quite painless. It certainly doesn't require a credit check.

PayPal probably already has an App too, so all they need is to give you is a reader.

Paypal was also revolutionary. Square is doing in the physical world what Paypal did online.

In both cases, fighting fraud makes or breaks the service.

Square is operating online too. That's what the mobile internet-connected computer is, that their reader is attached to. PayPal App + iPhone + reader = Square except cheaper, more reliable, and probably accessible to more people.

PayPal was revolutionary. The only thing I see here from Square that's even kind of new is the reader component, and that is hardly novel.

If I remember correctly, PayPal Website Payments Pro does require your SSN. There may be a credit check somewhere in the fine print.

You're right that they do take an SSN. I always assumed that was for tax or risk purposes. They don't say they do a credit check, but you're right, it is possible they do.

It's up on the App Store for iPhone/iPad already. Found something interesting: you have to pass a credit check to get a card reader dongle.

That device would be very useful for crooks.

[EDIT] Combined with some custom software, that device could be the easiest way to copy someone's CC information. A waiter could swipe the card on his iPhone, before running it on the restaurant's POS machine.

If someone's got your credit card--Square isn't going to make it any easier to make unauthorized purchases. It's probably more work given how easy it is to use someone else's card in retail and restaurant POS.

and prostitutes.

and drug dealers.

Drug dealers do love proof of purchases.

How else would you prove your eligibility for the bulk discount?

Waiter's already have plenty of time to get your credit card information. It does not take any longer to take a picture of the front and back of your card. Waiter's (and other POS workers) have been stealing credit information in low tech ways since credit cards have existed.

Unlike a digital camera, or, say a pen and paper to write down the cc number?

I am enamored with the spokesperson in that video. He's very mellow, seems trustworthy, and non-marketing. More companies should use people like this in their commercials and web videos.

I think he's Cameron Kenley Hunt. See the Birdhouse video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8yRaWY1xV8&feature=playe... (plugging for a semi-competitor, hah!)

Nope, he is Adam Lisagor aka http://lonelysandwich.com

You probably know him (I don't), but bear with me a little. What about - http://cameron.io/about/ ?

It's very much Adam Lisagor in this video. Funnily enough, Cameron Kenley Hunt designed Adam's website.

If you don't trust me, trust Gruber. http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/02/11/square

I just can't wrap my head around the photos. Like I said, I don't know them.

Nope - it's Adam Lisagor (@lonelysandwich), one-third of the You Look Nice Today podcast (http://youlooknicetoday.com/) with Merlin Mann and Scott Simpson.

That video (and Birdhouse itself) is actually both Cameron Hunt and Adam Lisagor (with a Merlin Mann cameo). Adam's the one that introduces Cameron.

Adam Lisagor is indeed a wonderful character. If you like him, you should check out the podcast he does with Merlin Mann and Scott Simpson, You Look Nice Today: http://youlooknicetoday.com/

Yup, kind of like the anti-Billy Mays.

If you like The Sandwich, also check out the video podcast he does with Jesse Thorne, "Put This On" a show about dressing like a grown up. http://putthison.com/

I installed and applied for the dongle yesterday. It's pretty quick and painless--the credit check is a little much, but if it keeps the quality high I'm ok with that. Plus, this service is just too damn cool to pass up.

How could the credit check keep quality high? It's not going to change who I can accept payment from since the payer doesn't have any connection with Square. Square isn't lending me any money that I somehow need to pay back when I accept a payment. So... why check my credit again?

My understanding is that they use it to verify your identity and it's also used to set your daily and per-transaction limits. My guess is that this is just fraud prevention and a way Square can keep scammers off their service.

Congrats on their launch, but I honestly can't see too much of a market for their product. I would expect most businesses to get a proper merchant account and maybe a mobile payment device from Verifone or Visa.

Square can't compete directly with those companies which have established brands and a long history in the payment industry. They might be able to target the folks who only occasionally need to process credit cards - say at a farmer's market, food cart, or when selling something on Craiglist.

But are there really enough people doing that are:

  - Too small to get a full merchant account
  - Not willing or able to use PayPal
  - And wanting to take credit cards instead of cash/checks and eat the fees?

I'll definitely have mine next time I have a garage sale. I think semi-licensed SF street cart vendors should be overjoyed. Et cetera. I think there's a long tail of uses for debit/credit for which an easy solution has not existed.

One of the uses I thought of was when a waiter does not want to or cant split a bill, simply pay for it and have your friends pay you. You still need to cope with fees but whats a couple of $$ between friends? ( If you are cheap you can take the 3% off the tip for the waiter )

Its also a great use for people who do on-site IT work they can charge on the spot. Just swipe the customers card and you're done.

This is really cool tech. However I'm not sure if I'd ever be comfortable swiping my credit card through someone's phone.

Why? Even if someone stores your number and uses it fraudulently, most (all?) credit card companies will reverse the charges that you didn't approve.

Care to share a few of your credit card numbers?

I actually thought about dropping my AMEX number just for giggles, but intentionally exposing it would probably invalidate their guarantee.

It's still a hassle though. Dealing with fraud and replacing your card is something I imagine most people would rather avoid having to do.

Watching the video it took me a while to work out what was 'wrong' with the system: it works with cards you swipe, and there's no PIN entry, something I haven't seen in five years (and won't work with any card issued by my banks).

Of course, the US is a big enough market to support a product like this, but it still seems odd to launch something that ignores the current standard in hundreds of other countries, EMV. Not to mention the increasingly popular contactless payment systems.

Usually debit cards require PIN entry and credit cards require signatures. Even most debit cards can be used as credit cards without requiring PIN entry. That is one of the reasons the risk is higher for credit cards.

And to that end, Square's screenshot has a line where the customer signs their name.

In the US, perhaps. Chip and PIN is the standard for new credit and debit cards in the UK - swipe and sign isn't quite obsolete, but it's certainly on the way out.

This can be a big inconvenience for travellers from the US to the UK (having worked in a theatre box office at the Edinburgh festival, I can testify to this). If Square takes off in a big way in the US - I imagine it will - it'll be similarly inconvenient to visitors from the UK, Europe and elsewhere.

Square is meant to be an entry-level credit-card terminal, meaning it's targeted toward businesses that previously did not accept credit or debit cards of any kind. It's misleading to say that Square causes an inconvenience for foreign travellers, since the businesses using it previously did not accept any kind of plastic payment whatsoever. It only adds convenience, though not as much convenience as foreign travellers may desire.

I'm glad to see more innovation coming out of St. Louis. I just moved back and wish there was more of a startup community.

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