Comment by Sephr | Hacker News Reader

Comment by Sephr | Hacker News Reader

For $5000, I'd much rather buy the 4K 120hz HDR 0.1ms response time OLED monitor Dell announced in CES 2016 (the UP3017Q). Unfortunately it seems like it may never come out. Hopefully Dell will try again with microLED in the future.

An 8K 60Hz LCD in 32 inches seems like a waste for literally every application I can think of except medical diagnostics (and even then, many doctors might not have the vision to benefit from this over 5K). The only practical uses for 8K are in completely different form factors and using different screen technologies.

The sweet spots for every current use case (gaming, content creation & consumption, web browsing, reading, medical diagnostics) that are possible with HDMI 2.1 are probably as follows:

Desktop monitor: 27" 5K 165Hz HDR OLED/microLED display

VR HMD: 2" 4000x4000 165Hz HDR OLED/microLED displays per-eye

AR HMD: 2" 8000px diameter HDR ???Hz fiber scanning displays[1] per-eye

[1]: https://gpuofthebrain.com/blog/2016/7/22/how-magic-leap-will...

I've wanting an LG OLED55C6P for a monitor. It's a 55" 4K curved TV with HDR. I figure it's like 4 27" 1080 monitors without the borders in the middle. It's also vertically taller than one of those monitors in portrait orientation while still having tons of space to the side of said portrait. As I'm old enough to need progressive lenses, I don't really think there's any value in having higher pixel density than 4K at that size.

The input lag on all LG OLED HDR TVs (including the latest gen) is atrocious if you plan on gaming. Current gen was only down to 60ms in "game mode" when it was first released, and is still at least 34ms with all of the latest updates.

I still haven't had a reason to replace my 27" 1440p 120hz IPS (with 5ms input lag) that I bought in 2012 for $500. I've been waiting for OLED/microLED for quite a while.

I gave up PC gaming to spend time out of my office. 4k TVs seem pretty sweet for coding and terms.

Depends on what you need. 60ms latency would drive me nuts for anything but watching video.

That depends on the type of gaming you do. Not gaming is fast twitch shooting.

I recently bought a Samsung KS8000 55" for a monitor, and I have to say it is incredible. Going back to standard monitors at work was painful. There is so much space to arrange windows and nothing has to be stacked.

How far do you sit away from it? I can't imagine sitting with a 55" monitor less than a metre from my face.

My optometrist said that you should sit at least a meter (roughly an arms length) with a regular size monitor. For this I'd say you probably want it even further away.

A meter away? Who sits that far from their monitor? I bet your optometrist doesn't. Standard viewing distance for a monitor is more like 20-26 inches (51-66 cm). OSHA guidelines are "at least 20 inches away".

Also your arms are not a meter long. Arms that long would imply a height of about 8 feet (2.4 meters) assuming fairly normal proportions.

I also have a 55" Vizio P55-C1 on a standing desk. It's on cheap VESA legs to drop it down to 0.5" off the desk (the included stand puts it about 3" off the surface). It's on an iMovR thermodesk elite with an 83" by 30" top and has a BenQ BL3201PH on either side in portrait mode. Using 1x scaling in windows looks just right. The only issue with the Vizio P55-c1 is that it won't do true 4:4:4 chroma at 4k, but input lag is great, especially at 120hz when running 1080p for games (I play Overwatch at a fairly high level).

1x scaling factor is the key for reasonable viewing distances with 4K. Consider that it's basically quad (2x2 setup) 1080p monitors, and compare the size of 24" 1080p screens in such a configuration with a single 4K 55".

~3 feet. It is a little close. I was going to buy the 49" model but when I went to the store the 55 and 49 were the same price and I couldn't in good conscious spend the same amount for a smaller monitor.

Edit: I also use it with my Xbox one and then I push my chair back another 2 feet, so I'm ~5 feet away

I have the 60" KS8000 and it is pretty awesome, find it too big to use as a monitor. I'd probably look at the smallest size they make (which seems to be 49"). Do you find the visual quality and uniformity to be adequate as a monitor? The smallest entry in their new 2017 QLED line seems to be 55", which again for me would be a problem (something in 40-45" range would be ideal, I think).

I agree with it being too large. I was going to get the 49" but the 55" was the same price at the time and I couldn't bring myself to pay the same for a smaller screen.

I have to say it looks great. I haven't noticed any problems visually with it and it has very uniform color. There is one annoyance. There is a PC mode setting to get 4:4:4 Chroma subsampling which is awesome, but if your PC disconnects while the monitor is on, it defaults back to the TV mode. So I find myself changing the setting every time I boot up my machine (Which is daily as I have an SSD so its like a 30 second boot, and I like to shut it down to save power while I'm away.)

Best this about it is I can have 3 editor up each with 160 lines of code at 100 char width and still have half the screen open for documentation or other things. I haven't been able to fill it completely yet and nothing is every hidden behind another window.

Similar setup here, I've got a 40" 4k Samsung HDTV to deliver a similar DPI to a 27" 1440p monitor. It's cheaper and more effective than 4 1080p monitors and awesome for games.

Link?

It's the 2015 curved screen model and no longer manufactured.

What you need is a TV that support 4:4:4 4k@60Hz via HDMI 2 and a Graphics card that supports HDMI 2 (any NVidia 900 or better will do it).

rtings.com has a fantastic set of reviews you can look up: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usage/pc-monitor/best

My friend got a Samsung UN40KU6290 4K 40" TV as a monitor for around $250 during the holiday sales, and I think it's an absolute steal even at the regular price of $300. It does chroma 4:4:4, has best of class input lag, and the picture quality is decent too. But most importantly, you get the resolution of 4 1080P monitors for the price of 2, and the size is large enough to comfortably make use of all the desktop real estate without having to mess with scaling.

It really baffles me how they can afford to sell it at that price.

>> It really baffles me how they can afford to sell it at that price.

Just remember these are essentially a piece of glass with special stuff printed on it. Yes, it's very complex and expensive to set up but then it's more or less like a printing press. (no, I don't know the actual process)

I have that exact TV and have been using it as a monitor for a while.

The input lag is actually fairly bearable in the recently updated game mode for development and everyday use, though I certainly wouldn't use it for competitive gaming.

My main issue with it as a monitor is the Automatic Brightness Limiter. Rtings has a fairly good description of the symptoms: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c6

Basically, the brightness of the TV varies across a huge range depending on the content being displayed, with brighter content causing the TV to dim itself automatically. It's a huge distraction on a day to day basis because every time you switch to a new tab in a browser or minimize/maximize a tab, you can see your entire screen dim/brighten. There is no way to turn it off completely AFAIK, even through the TV's service menus. The workaround I've found involves setting the contrast level to 55 or below, which reduces the max brightness of the TV and makes the ABL changes much less drastic, but it's definitely still noticeable and distracting, and of course the contrast and max brightness suffers.

If I had known everything about this TV that I know today, I would not have bought it to use as a monitor (would probably have gone with some high end LCD with good local dimming). Watching movies on it in a dark room is an awe-inspiring experience though, and is what makes me reluctant to go through the trouble of returning/selling it and getting something else. That's my 2c anyways, feel free to make use of this information how you will.

I didn't know about the automatic brightness issue with OLEDs, it looks pretty annoying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqx_9P645wY

Why do they have to use it? I know OLEDs have burn-in problems but I don't see how this would help with that, it looks more like an energy saving thing.

Damn, that's quite annoying on my LG Plasma (but not really noticeable in other than web browsing), I thought OLED would certainly not need to have the same feature.

> would probably have gone with some high end LCD with good local dimming

Are you also talking about TVs? I'm considering doing this, as someone who knows about it, what would you look at if you were to buy something now/in the near future?

For a high end LCD, I'd go with a Vizio P series assuming they've rolled out the promised firmware upgrade that adds 4:4:4 chroma support. The local dimming is supposed to be very good on that one. And it has relatively low input lag. No chroma 4:4:4 (AKA chroma subsampling) kills it as a monitor though, so I'd do some research to make sure it supports that properly before pulling the trigger.

For something more value-minded, I'd go for something from the Samsung KU6290/KU6300 series. No local dimming on this one, but otherwise it's an incredible value. I've written more about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354234

To be honest, I would have an extremely hard time justifying spending 2-3 times on a higher end LCD over the KU6290/KU6300 series if I were in the market for a new TV-as-monitor today myself. Local dimming could still be worth the additional investment if you watch a lot of movies though, having blacks appear as pure black really made the movie watching experience that much more enjoyable for me and my friends.

If you're old enough to need progressive lenses, do yourself a real favor and get a second pair of glasses: a single vision set adjusted for normal monitor/laptop distance.

With that 55" monitor, how far away are you going to put it? Across the room?

With single vision glasses you can choose how far away to put the monitor. I had mine adjusted to 20", the distance to my laptop screen in normal use. I'm currently using a MacBook Pro Retina 15" running Windows 10, and my second monitor is a 24" 4K monitor, a ViewSonic VX2475SMHL-4K mounted on an Amazon Basics (Ergotron) arm, spending most of its time in portrait mode.

With the adjustable arm I can put this monitor at the same viewing distance as the laptop screen, or rotate it to landscape mode for a movie. Portrait mode works out great for everyday programming - I can have documentation on the portrait screen and code on the MacBook screen.

And if I want to go someplace, I can just pack up the MacBook and still have a perfectly crisp view of the entire screen. Can't do that with progressives.

I can't recommend the single vision lenses highly enough - it's one of the best things I ever did for myself. (But don't just ask for "reading glasses" - those will be closer to a 16" focusing distance, much too close for computer use. Bring your laptop to the optometrist and you can try out different lens corrections right there.)

I agree. I am 56 and have used single vision glasses since I was 16. But recently I noticed my distance vision was poor and my optometrist recommended progressives. They're great for almost everything. But not computing! I just use my old glasses. I am lucky I suppose that they just happen to be in the sweet spot. I have a third pair just for reading, and they don't really suit programming either.

At work my setup is in a corner desk. I have a laptop right in front of me and a 24" monitor propped up about a foot behind it, so I setup the displays as being one above the other. I can see both completely. glance down for the laptop and look forward for the big display. My glasses are a progressive lens with distance straight ahead and an intermediate "computer" distance part way down, and reading at the bottom. With some head tilt I am able to use both monitors through the middle section (the far part is still workable for the far monitor though a little head tilt improves is). For my phone or reading I look down and for driving I just do as normal.

For a single large desk monitor of that height, I may need a different pair of glasses. I wouldn't want to tilt my head back far enough to see the top of it clearly. Perhaps just a non-variable lens optimized for the display distance. I could keep them on that desk when not in use.

Yeah, for all those younger HN readers that whole "lens hardening unable to change focus" thing usually happens some time in your 40s. It's one of the first "old people" things to happen and you're not really old when it hits. Our line of work makes it especially challenging to find a good solution, but they are out there. Custom lenses that work for you are worth every cent.

Honestly for hardcore gaming I don't much care about refresh rate beyond 60 Hz, so the it boils down to input lag for me. But this depends on your game of choice. I don't really play shooters. Anyone have a recommendation for a low input lag 4k monitor? Possibly with gsync?

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