I made my son cannabis cookies. They changed his life
washingtonpost.com
washingtonpost.com
I completely believe that to control the world, you must control people's minds, and to control people's minds, you must control drugs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Egypt#Ottoman_peri...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Singapore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Opium_Convention
There are also references of the ban in Turkey and Greece in 1890 everywhere but without good sources.
The above should be enough to realize that that different nations made various drugs illegal without the US influence and without intention to oppress black panthers and communists.
A cynical person may think that that the modern war on drugs is intended to increase profits for the CIA for things that they couldn't ask the tax payers for.
An extra cynical person may think that the CIA has found a new and much cleaner way of raising money via the tech startup industry.
But you'd have to be pretty cynical to believe that.
Guess which country has rules to bend to the war on terror?
All you need is a compliant media and lots of Money to be made to corrupt enough legislators....
A case could be made for exceptions here and there (like the child in this article) but I don't think it works so well in society.
Almost all of the drug users I know are highly motivated and very successful people. Even if you include illegal drugs.
Perhaps this is just selection bias at work, but that knife cuts both ways.
There isn't just the selection bias of people you tend to know potentially not being representative of most drug users, but the need for comparing how those same drug users would do without drugs (I'm not sure how this is possible to evaluate). It isn't enough to say that some drug users are highly motivated and successful, which I don't contest.
If they were enjoying a light marijuana buzz (or a light alcohol/caffeine buzz!!!) during work hours -- or in a way that directly and visibly effects their work performance -- you might have a point.
But even in those cases, I would still strongly disagree with your rationale. The same line of reasoning also justifies jailing people for obesity, which "Has Been Known To Significantly Decrease Productivity". And it certainly justifies jailing people who drink alcohol, since even mild hang-overs have rather extreme effects on productivity. If you're too over-weight or hung-over or high to work, then you should be fired. Not jailed.
But justifying a law on the basis that individuals should organize their private life choices such that they are optimally productive as members of society? That's quite the burden, and if we're going to impose that burden, I suspect we'd have a compelling justification for jailing literally anyone.
Conversely, all of the drug users I know are employed and earn between 1x and 3x the national average household income. At jobs where they're highly respected for their contributions.
Again, maybe that's just anecdote. But the "anecdote" criticism cuts both ways. The only real difference is that I'm not justifying jailing people on the basis of personal anecdote.
You're saying that by sampling opinions that are formed in small neighborhoods around voters, we can get a picture of ground truth -- even if reality is distorted in various ways around those small neighborhoods.
This can work, but not in the case where there's something masking a portion of the data set such that personal anecdote isn't indicative of underlying reality, even locally.
In that case, anecdotes aren't even locally accurate, and that effect amortizes over the voting population to result in a globally inaccurate picture of reality.
Which is the case here. Criminalizing and stigmatizing drugs means that grandma doesn't necessarily know successful son-in-law smokes pot on the weekend, for example.
It's definitely selection bias.
I too lived in an urban/cool area with 'pro' drug users and (mostly) never saw a problem, though there was one accidental OD in my circle.
But get out into the real world, working class areas where meth and crack in particular have laid waste - it's another story.
Rural areas, working class areas, ghettos - another story - and I think they represent the 'majority' of users by far.
In fact - I think that this bias is the #1 contributor to the misinformation about 'the war on drugs'.
As I stated in another thread, the "all drug users are lazy" mythos is also a form of selection bias. The only difference is that my selection bias isn't being used as a justification for jailing people. I think that's an important difference.
> Rural areas, working class areas, ghettos - another story - and I think they represent the 'majority' of users by far.
We see similar harms from excessive tobacco and alcohol abuse in those communities, but we don't outlaw those drugs.
So, why do we draw the arbitrary line where we do?
And how, exactly, does jailing these people actually help anything?
Basically, I don't take this argument seriously unless the person advocating it is in favor of marijuana legalization or else supports alcohol prohibition.
what happens when you become the target? what if society decides that your behavior is undesirable?
It's not just anecdotal evidence, but also a basic understanding of human psychology and how drugs and addiction influences people.
show me your proof.
i use drugs every day. i also have a high-paying job, friends, family. i pay my taxes, and participate in the community. i know lots of other people who live similar lifestyles.
the question is, why aren't drugs destroying us? why hasn't colorado burnt to the ground? or portugal for that matter?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/05/why-h...
https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decr...
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-...
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-...
you are positing something that you have no proof of. what we do know is that the war on drugs is damaging to society. we also know that decriminalization worked for Portugal. where is your proof?
i want to be free. i don't want you or anyone else to have the power to dictate my (or anyone's) behavior.
Your assumptions are not knowledge. Also, your concept of freedom seems rather misplaced. Everyone already does dictate your behavior. If you think otherwise, you are not thinking hard enough.
have some data:
https://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachements.cfm/att_239505_EN_T...
decriminalization works. punishing users doesn't.
if you want to do something about drugs, treat the addiction. fund rehab programs. see them as people with a medical issue, rather than morally corrupt individuals.
Do you have any evidence to support your "deep suspicion"?
This is why declaring war is traditionally a last-resort approach, appropriate only when you believe the inevitable evils of waging war are worth enduring to eliminate the great evil you're facing. If the evil you're facing is not that great, war is not the right tool.
This is a good book that shows some of the motivation for a War on Drugs is not in the name of health, safety, security... but the exact opposite. The War on Drugs sorta failed in these aims, so now "terrorists" are the new excuse for a 'soft' police state.
Think Mexican drug cartels, gang wars over drug selling operations, etc.
The 'war on drugs' has not been shown responsible for addiction, addiction-related crime and related social ills.
The premise is thus: every nation in North and South America must perfectly legalize all illegal drugs across the board for use, production and distribution (any imperfect law structures could cause illegal behavior), else the nations that do not establish perfect systems are responsible for all ills related to said non-perfect legalization no matter where they occur in the hemisphere. That's what is being proposed in concept if you extrapolate it.
I support the complete legalization of all drugs. However, trying to pin all ills on the US, is nothing more than a political convenience. It occurs with practically every bad thing on the planet. The US does not control the world; take China as one example when it comes to drugs, or broader Asia (most of which frequently shares China's general sentiment on drugs) - the US didn't impose those policies on China. The US doesn't control Latin America any more than it controls China or Asia. The same mentality that has existed in the US regarding the war on drugs, is in fact very common throughout the rest of the planet, including in Latin America.
The US has active military operation against drug production all over Latin America.
Plus the US is responsable for the massive demand that drives a lot of these activities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUXLqNHCaI
Deaths might not be in the million range, but the number of ruined life thanks to the war is well beyond millions.
The war on drugs might subside because of the perfect enemy they have now: terrorists. A faceless, ever-present threat that can keep the war drums beating.
What I'd like to see is the military-industrial complex shift their battle to a War on Extinction: space exploration.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_haunted_world
Good luck.
It's absurd. The absurd part being, if you told me we actually got rid of it, I wouldn't believe it either. So maybe better keep some, just in case. So understandable and so stupid at the same time--absurdity.
Not really "the US" per se, but the lobbies behind politics (the police likes the war on drugs because they get massive federal grants for it, and equipment resellers are happy to oblige - and where there is big money, there are influencers to make sure politicians go a certain way) in order to thrive.
Add to that that the public opinion is pretty much against drugs in America, and it's fairly straightforward for politicians to double-down on that kind of topic and enforce rigidity.
I think generally there are people with all sorts of agendas. Unfortunately, in the current state of society, the ones that stick will always be the ones who drive profits the most.
Fear might be the strongest motivator for the average human being. It's not surprising systems fed by conflict and imaginary enemies seem to thrive so much.
It doesn't mean that there aren't bubbles of people who are different, but they are just ripples among the waves.
That said, I think it might subside for different reasons.
The demographics of drug addiction are changing. Addictive drug use went from being primarily a poor minority inner city epidemic to something affecting affluent white kids, professionals with bad backs and the elderly. The road from Oxycontin to heroin is a well documented phenomenon[1] that has become all too familiar with the people who pushed for severe punishments for drug crimes.
If your kid could be facing 10 years in jail because he was charged with the intent to distribute a bag of heroin, and that same situation is playing out in towns all over America, suddenly the wheels of change get greased.
[1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/15/heroin-...
Give me a break. I've never heard a more hyperbolic statement even from diehard warmongers.
There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security. Even several orders of magnitude more attacks a year would be barely a blip in terms of actual casualties.
There are sizable portions of the US and Europe that believe muslims are terrorist sympathizers who want to enact Sharia law. To them terrorists, immigrants and muslims are existential threats: they want to blow them up, take their jobs and run their lives and government.
> There is no conceivable way that terrorists threaten our national existence/security.
I agree.
Sure, and there are millions of people who believe all sorts of nutty things. Millions of people believe that stars predict the future or that aliens regularly abduct people. That doesn't mean we should legitimize these beliefs.
Edit: just reread your comment and several orders is 200 buildings?
Realistically, as cold as this sounds, a terrorist attack which managed to level downtown would not even pose an existential threat to the US.
More terrorism might change the nature of US democracy, but it will still be the US.
It's actually not that hard to imagine: dirty bomb set off in midtown Manhattan, kills thousands and sickens tens of thousands. In its hasty reply, the US launches a massive counterstrike against somewhere based on shoddy intel. Putin says, oh hell no, and red buttons are pushed. That's game over folks.
This statement surprises me. Especially your talk of casualties. I think you miss something important about "terrorism". It is far more than raw casualty numbers. It is about the "fear and uncertainty" they generate in a populace. And that, to me, is a threat to any modern nation's existence, in a world whose economy depends a lot on things like "confidence" and "optimism".
Perhaps I misunderstand developed nations, but from my point of view, your statement seems alarmingly absurd.
Also keep in mind that people are already extraordinarily pessimistic and unconfident about the country.
As much as I'd hate to live in a police state, I don't think you can call that the "collapse of the USA." China is very much alive.
And doesn't anymore.
only allowed a minority of citizens to vote for most of its history
And now does.
These are both examples of how the US has improved over time. I would be very surprised to see a reversal on either of these. If there were, people would similarly question whether it was still the US in anything but name, even if this had been the situation in the past.
You're being sarcastic, right?
This is a really good way to phrase it as a marketing campaign. It could be used for global warming, energy problems and like you mention space exploration.
Maybe we ought to instead start a "War on Health" or a "War on Learning" ;)
We lack the social cohesion to exist otherwise. Our nation has lost the grand dreams that drove our forefathers... now we huddle together fearing the nightmares and boogeymen.
We stage coups in democratic countries, then we install puppet leaders. Then we start growing, harvesting, or selling drugs there. Then we move on to the next country.
Check out the history of Captagon.
Spoken by someone who has never known an opioid or cocaine addict, and watched lives crumble, sometimes into death.
Most drugs are quite dangerous and have seriously adverse affects upon populations at large.
Cocaine, Meth, and Opioids create massive social health problems far beyond anything dope or alcohol ever could.
I have no doubt there are 'responsible' users out there, but in general, those things will lay waste to populations at large.
I had a friend who lived in his (wealthy) parents basement, smocking crack all day, every day. Visiting with him - there was gerbil feces everywhere, a divot in the sofa were he sat all day, and a pile of ashes next to him on the sofa. He had every opportunity in life, he now lives in a clinic.
Another 'responsible partier' friend in who died of suffocation 'laughing gas' mask to his face.
Another - a weed addict (yes, despite the fact that pot is not really chemically addictive, there is definitely such a thing as addiction) - who threw himself in front of a subway in despair. Not blaming the drugs, but it's specifically related in this case.
A family member who is point-blank prescription opioid addict - and it's complicated because she gets debilitating migraines that few drugs can help her with, but the 'solution' is poison.
And finally - close family members and friends who are 'chronic' pot smokers, who manage it quite well, but are basically always high. It has dramatically affected their lives, though they are functional - they are entirely different people. I'm not sure if I would call that addiction, but I would say it is problematic.
I live in a mixed neighbourhood of creatives/wealthy/working class, there's a health clinic across the street - and the effect of crack in my neighbourhood is quite visible.
Visit places where the 'war on drugs' is truly being lost, like West Virginia, and you get the picture pretty quickly.
Of course there is no reason to put pot smokers in jail - but this antagonism about the 'war on drugs' is very naive, unsympathetic, and dangerous.
Chewing on coca leaves? Maybe. The occasional LSD/Hyabithsca user? Doesn't matter.
But there is no way we will legalize opioids, coke, meth - it doesn't matter that some can 'handle it' - it just wreaks havoc overall. On the whole they destroy lives, families, social scenes, and this is before the legal framework.
I think that the 'perception' problem of the 'war on drugs' is largely led by people who are recreational users, living in the 'Burning Man' bubble of people who have their act together. Then they read up on 'jailing' because of this and that. Remember that if you're in that club, heck, if you're reading HN, you're probably in the top 5% of Americans, and probably the top 0.1% of global population.
Visit your local Salvation Army :)
The part of this sentence after the hyphen is where you're fundamentally wrong. You listed a lot of sad facts and stories about drug abuse, but those do not constitute a defense of the war on drugs. It's naive to excuse the war on drugs simply because some drugs cause horrible effects for some people.
No.
Meth, cocaine and opioids represent the vast majority of illegal use outside of weed (which I think is a different category, and it is treated differently in most places) - and they represent a huge risk to society at large.
Prescription opioid use is becoming a massive problem (and now the #1 source of addiction etc.) in the US - it's systematic - not just a problem for 'some people'.
This not about 'specific examples' - it's widespread and systematic.
Making drugs illegal ultimately prevents people from getting the help they need.
2) the infinitely more dangerous threat,which you accurately described, is opioids...yet ask an average high schooler and they'll tell you they were taught weed is so evil...
3) oh, and lack of health insurance kills more people in the US than cocaine
In Canada (a prison in Ottawa, specifically) if you 'go in' an opioid addict, the actually give you 3 doses of methodone a day. A friend of mine in there for a few days (small thing) described them as insane zombies, banging on the door to the clinic when it was almost time for their next dose.
The 'short term' harm reduction ideal of 'giving them drugs' might be nice, but in the 'long term' - keeping people jacked on opioids for months at a time has to be one of the most cruel things imaginable.
2) I think that most 'high schoolers' grasp that heroin, meth and coke are far worse than weed.
3) This is a separate issue. In other countries, such as Canada, we still have 'the war on drugs' - and 'free healthcare'.
Paracetamol (is this tylenol in the US) is a pretty effective poison too. Many drugs are poisonous either in large doses or sustained use. It appears cannabis is not one of them btw. What is your solution?
I don't think GP advances a blanket solution, which is good, because there isn't one. I do think he's a bit arguing against a blanket legalization policy that no one here is advancing, and that's good too, because that way lies madness.
Opinions of HN users may vary on how exactly to fix these problems, but I think it's safe to say that neither the system we have now (villainizing and condemning users) nor complete and total deregulation are solutions.
As for people using drugs recreationally - if they're functioning adults then who cares? It's no different than drinking alcohol for a lot of people. If you do it in excess or irresponsibly you can die. Part of being an adult is taking a little personal responsibility.
A parallel story is the guy in the UK researching treating depression with 'magic mushrooms' in small doses (too little to be psychoactive). As I recall it took him 10 years to get a license to do the study! These things grow in your lawn in the UK! The results seemed good when compared to the poor outcomes for people on patentable anti-depressants
* I could obtain it from a trustworthy source
* It's studies to understand it's effects on children (medical)
* Understand any long-term effects it has on children's memory/behavior (psychological)
I don't know if it not being patentable is accurate. You can patent your specificly mutated gene in the plant (like monsanto) to get exclusive rights. The plant is also presumably easy to cultivate as many untrained "farmers" do it. If you gave profesional botanists and farmers a crack at it I'm pretty sure they could come up with large scale and extremely cheap growth plans that are paralleled to the cost of tabaco. Lucky for them pot isn't as regulated as tabaco so they'd make out like kids in a candy store.No and no.
Not only is it patentable, the United States Government famously holds one[1] for "Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectant."
Additionally, there are already pharmaceutical companies producing, researching, breeding, and selling medical cannabis in other countries like Israel[2].
And if you're looking to see what's happening in the United States, GW Pharmaceuticals is seeing success in their Phase 3 trials for Dravet Syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome[3].
[1] - https://www.google.com/patents/US6630507
[2] - http://www.tikun-olam.info
[3] - https://www.gwpharm.com/about-us/news/gw-announces-new-epidi...
The IP is certainly fuzzy but that's no argument. If it can be commoditized and involves some form of creative/innovative work, there's pretty much always some way to create legal protection for it. Besides, just because there's potential for competition doesn't mean that people won't try to enter the market.
> Large Pharma can't make enough money from something people could grow themselves?
As the article itself explains, growing weed is not simple. A sophisticated operation requires a lot of resources and dedicated man-hours.
The primary reason that no big, entrenched players are moving on it (or that anyone who does it hasn't gotten too big) is that the fact remains that marijuana is illegal. (This is true in a lot of countries, not just the U.S., but the rest of this comment is going to be U.S.-specific because I don't know the situation in other countries nearly as well.)
No matter what the states say, federal law overrides state law, which means that anyone that grows pot has huge legal exposure. There's also a secondary problem: pot growers have a lot of trouble using the kinds of services that are traditionally available to businesses, because B2B's (1) want clients that are not at risk of getting shut down by a DEA investigation and (2) do not want to expose their own businesses to legal risk, which they would be by working with a pot-growing op.
There's a lot of stories about dispensaries in Colorado who are denied, for example, banking services, because of the litigation it would expose banks to.
The argument that certain power interests wanted to keep it illegal, to fund secret wars, has never made much sense either (other than that such activities might occur as a monetary & political convenience while prohibition exists). Marijuana legalization is worth perhaps $30 billion per year nationally, at all levels, via taxation (sales taxes, income taxes, specialty taxes, etc); the industry would generate at least $150 billion in sales nationally were it legalized. There's a vast amount of money that should motivate legalization. Moralization of an issue often trumps monetary concerns (we see this frequently in biotech / pharma as well, the FDA prevents rapid progress in all sorts of ways).
https://leafist.com/news/2016/12/19/which-cannabis-strains-h...
[1] www.foxnews.com/health/2016/12/20/now-schedule-1-drug-cbd-hemp-oil.amp.html
I remember being a young kid in school and seeing the few students that just seemed so mentally imbalanced that they couldn't even exist comfortably, let alone study. My school became a center for "emotionally disturbed" children for the county. For the half-dozen of these students, they had 3 (very strong) teachers.
When there's no respite for a condition that is potentially dangerous to your child as well as others, what do you do? What happens when the medication fails to work or has worse side affects? This sounds like desperation. I'd have an open mind towards about anything if I were in this woman's position.
Possession. Death. Unbelievable.
How can a society that will give Ritalin to a child, dogmatically refuse to give a child cannabis based therapy?
Why is the state so keen to control cannabis? Is it simply that the state associates it with hippies? Still? In 2017?
Even if the constitution grant the right to discuss and modify the law... and the country claims being the country of the Human Rights.
Vive la France. The country where some animals are more equal than others.
I hate to point this out, but that one quote nullifies the rest of the article. When they moved, they would have checked the school district. They didn't check their son's medication?
Or is it the case that it's not as bad as it appears?
Isn't moving the oil from Rhode Island to New York the same thing?
Although it seems cannabis is fairly harmless in developed brains– there's some evidence it can interfere with development.
Hopefully this works for the child's benefit, and clearly it's a case of a desperate parent grasping for anything that may help. However, it does sadly have potential to do further harm as well.
Correct. However this also applies to ADHD and anti-depressive medication that is commonly given to children, sometimes in doses higher than needed.
On short term memory: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article...
On dopamine levels: http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcolleg...
and the development of brains in adolescents: http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2013.00...
So the real question is whether it's worth the potential side effects? Perhaps in this case, since it seems the parents have researched their options and hopefully continue to research future options.
A cure should be counterbalanced with its negative side effects. That seems obvious to say, but often I hear the misguided statement or see the attitude that marijuana is not associated with any problems. Sure, it's not lethal and shouldn't be Schedule I, but it's not something that should be taken lightly as a long term treatment.
Seriously. I've smoked heavily for years, with sudden breaks, and at most I get a couple days of off appetite and bad sleep. No big deal.
I've met exactly one person that had withdrawals from pot: In his case, he was self-medicating with it. It wasn't that he got withdrawals from pot, but that mental illness simply reared its head more when he stopped.
If it looks like addiction, walks like addiction and quacks like addiction, then it is addiction. And it exists in marijuana users.
People who want to live die from physical detox.
It isn't that psycological addiction doesn't have physical symptoms: Indeed, many psychological problems have them - anxiety and an upset stomach, depression and aches. Not to mention panic attacks. But the treatment isn't the same at all. You don't actually have to wean someone off of something psychologically addictive - that's why folks aren't weaned off of gambling, for example. And they won't die if they don't have it (suicidal is a different issue).
Pot generally has mild withdrawal symptoms. I'm pretty sure a few get in a bad situation with it - just like folks do with anything else - but underlying psychological problems kind of mess that stuff up.
Yeah, the sweating? Could be anxiety as well, for example. And to the layperson, it would seem like withdrawal symptoms instead of the anxiety coming back. Before his diagnosis, my ex would use about anything to get the voices inside his head to shut up. Friend of mine? Had a lot of trouble not smoking, but also was a bit... off. Brain damage from a car accident + a few psychological issues to boot. In all my years, I've never seen this sort of stuff from a reasonably balanced person.
Sure, it would be illegal, but the chances of getting caught are pretty miniscule. Although I don't know how severe penalties are in place where the author lives or are there any secondary repercussions that make it not feasible (such as children taken into custody if caught).
It needs a bit of investment and some time to get the build right, but it can be done.
> But Lester Grinspoon, a psychiatrist and professor at Harvard Medical School who has been researching cannabis since the 1960s, reassured me that the worst we could do was make our son fall asleep.
One study had shown that even if there is no long term effect on adults on IQ, teenagers experience on average 10% less IQ than no consumers - even after stopped completely taken it for years. Another study has shown that if you are DNA predisposed - less than 3% of the population - MJ can induce schizophrenia reshaping the brain long term even after years after taking it. I don't fully get this is not common knowledge. Maybe, this is not hype enough and people want to not being perceived as reactionary. But, facts are facts.
So, at least the folks who wrote down those schedules disagree that Marijuana has legitimate uses.
Note that "accepted" here basically means whatever the person in power wants it to mean. There's absolutely no criteria that "accepted medical use" corresponds to doctors' opinions on the matter.
Conventional medicine has no treatment available. What would you do?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_J._Anslinger#The_campaig...
Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness.
> Calling this propaganda is the height of ridiculousness.
You must have a poor imagination. There are cookies for that though.
propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
In what way is the article biased or misleading? It is clearly labeled 'Opinion'.
Not every article in a newspaper needs to meet the standards for an article in a peer-reviewed journal. There is a place for human-interest stories too.
Outright prohibition isn't the answer, but the scatter shot of substitutes aren't correct either. Don't look for me to recommend the solution, I simply took issue with the Washington Post carrying this opinion piece which, frankly, glamorizes dangerous behavior.
And it's bullshit that you put words in my mouth. I never said cannabis should be illegal. "Trolling", really? Is that a byword for disagreement now? Please go harangue your DEA strawman somewhere else.
Tens of millions of dollars of meth are sold by pharma companies in the US each year.
One of my friends complained for months about headaches, loss of libido, tummy cramps while getting off of it after years of use.
Or one of the other many reasons why there can be correlation without causation.
Source - lifelong medical cannabis patient.
Currently we think cannabis is not physically addictive, and we think it might be psychologically addictive for some people.
People de-toxing from alcohol addiction can literally die if they do it wrong. That's never going to happen with cannabis.
I hope for her sake and her sons the long term effects on children are ok and that she isn't giving 10x the required therapeutic dose because she whipped it up in her kitchen.
Every parent has only one subject; every child raising is a trial. You only have one chance and have to choose one approach.
This drug is used worldwide by maybe a billion people. Scaremongering is unhelpful.
Aspirin is used by billions of people and it's dangerous to give to children.
She obviously has no clue how to manage safe dosing for a trial and that is ignorant and dangerous.
Just because it's natural and everyone's doing it doesn't mean it's safe: hemlock is natural, "everyone" used to smoke cigarettes.
This was a desperate act, by a desperate parent who had been abandoned by a medical industry that's happy to lose a generation of sick children because hey! process.
But nobody is actually arguing that it's safe because it's natural. You don't have to, the data is conclusive: it is nigh on impossible to die of marijuana usage no matter what your age is. There are few other substances in a home that that can be said of.
Whatever you think the long term side effects would be it would seem pretty damn hard for them to outweigh the unceasing agony of this child's existence without marijuana. And as has been said numerous times before, everything major has already been ruled out so long term effects are not going to be catastrophic on the level of regret when you consider how much this child's quality of life has been improved.
Marijuana is used by millions of people and is probably safer than aspirin. Granted if you're breathing weed smoke instead of air 24/7 you probably won't fare too well but that's not what's happening here: small amounts, carefully tested on adults, of a substance scientifically believed to be safe. (which cigarettes never were on this order)
On the other hand, this "just put them to sleep all day" is a particularly outrageous "solution" for autistic children, that often are very smart and sensitive people and deserve to be respected and loved, as any other children.
As a lifetime medical patient, this is not entirely true. There are plenty of physical withdrawal effects. The primary one being headache and hypertension. Another one is lack of dreaming/REM sleep (as cannabis usage depletes your melatonin/serotonin levels, which effects your REM sleep.)
"THC doesn't have near the same capability to incapacitate people"
THC-Vivarin will hit you so hard I'd be surprised if you could remain standing despite the fact it only lasts for about 15 minutes.
Huh?
i don't know what you've been smoking, but as a daily "practically 24/7" smoker myself, i've never experienced any of these when i leave the country and go without cannabis for weeks (or months) at a time. for background: i smoke first thing when i wake up, and i pretty much take a hit from the bong every 30 mins as i work from home. my work and lifestyle allows for such frequent consumption. point i'm making is, i'm a very heavy smoker so i'm a reasonably good gauge for addictive potential.
every 6 months, i take a tolerance break by visiting family in another country. guess what happens when i go cold turkey during these visits? absolutely nothing. no shaking, no foaming at the mouth, no physical withdrawal whatsoever. do i get a little bit irritated if i think about how i can't get weed? sure. but if i choose not to think about it? i don't even notice anything different at all.
regarding the lack of dreaming, yes that may be true. however, as someone who also works out every day at the gym, i felt absolutely no difference in physical recovery nor mental recovery at all.
i think the point i'm making is: whatever "withdrawal" you're experiencing is entirely in your own head. you want to believe it's there, so it's there.
Every human's body chemistry is different, so no, you are not a good gauge. To boot, I consume WAY MORE than you - I go through about 5-6 grams of concentrate a day. Get your leg replaced with titanium and plastic composites and see if your consumption doesn't jump up to really high levels due to chronic post-operative pain.
"every 6 months, i take a tolerance break by visiting family in another country."
Tolerance breaks simply aren't on the menu for me.
"i think the point i'm making is: whatever "withdrawal" you're experiencing is entirely in your own head"
Except I go to a doctor and they can physically measure everything, right down to my blood pressure, when I'm in withdrawal, and then watch everything change after I take a hit, so no, it's REAL.
Again, licensed MEDICAL patient. State card-carrying. I go to real doctors while you rely upon your own anecdotes.
She didn't just wake up one day and say "hey! Let's give him a joint and see what happens!"
Which, I should add is pretty much how my sister came to use marijuana as medicine -- except she didn't live in a state where medical marijuana was legal, her teenaged son had a source. She was on treatment for an autoimmune disorder and on the days she took her meds, she was so nauseous that she couldn't get out of bed. Pharmaceutical anti-nausea meds (including $20/day Marinol) worked poorly or had unwanted side effects. Finally her doctor pointed her at a website and told her that he couldn't recommend it, but other patients had gotten relief from medical marijuana. And indeed, it made a huge difference for her.
Due to her illness, she had access to pretty much any narcotic painkiller she wanted, yet to gain access to marijuana, she had to ask her son to risk prosecution to buy it from a guy he knew from school.
Read what you've said again; do you realize how completely ridiculous this sounds?
A "strong dose" of heroin, to a 9-year-old who is opiate naive, will obviously not cause them to "chill out." It will cause them to horribly itch, turn green in the face, violently vomit, alternate between pouring sweat and feeling freezing cold, moan and cry, and finally lose consciousness and quite plausibly their life.
Cannabis, even at a very "strong dose," will cause none of this.
As plant medicines go, cannabis is something like a wonder drug at least in the limited sense that it is therapeutically active for a wide array of conditions at very, very safe doses.
There may be no other drug which is a candidate for relief for the symptoms described in the article and for which a trial regiment has such a low cost in terms of risk.
Heroin most certainly isn't one.
That said, I really agree with your argument. You make a great case for legalization that isn't merely "oh hur dur look how my child mellows out on weed." Thank you.
What is the advantage of this over raw plant material?
Consistency.
However, if consistent effect is the goal, I want to suggest that oral administration is not ideal in the first place, and that oral administration of isolated chemicals even less so.
Achieving the latter is more accessible via slow, careful titration via vaporization or smoking of high-quality plant matter.
This is the case at least for me and people I know, including several patients with otherwise debilitating illnesses.
Additionally, I think that the ability to garden and grow medicines (not just cannabis, but plant medicines generally) is a great way for patients to gain some control (or at least the sense of control) over their illness. It also is often more economically viable as well.
To a point, consistency. It might not even be pill form: vaporizers, inhalers, and other such things might work as well. It might be that the best way to do it is via hash instead of the unprocessed plant.
All that said, there is some concern with the synthetic. I have a feeling the very reason the plant works better is because of the high. For example, MS patients have problems with muscles. Patients report better mobility and less pain, yet the muscles don't actually improve. It seems it just doesn't bother them - and I imagine some of the synthetics wouldn't produce this effect.
It doesn't mean that synthetics won't work for some folks, though, and might be better for kids.
https://www.google.com/search?q=marinol&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
etc.
Methylphenidate is a different beast altogether and not neurotoxic like the amphetamines are even though in therapeutic doses amphetamines are also extremely safe. The difference is that amphetamines are both dopamine reuptake inhibitors and dopaminergic releasing agents while methylphenidate only inhibits dopamine reuptake alongside its effect as a CNS stimulant.
It's ridiculous to compare cannabis to heroin, but it's still worth pointing out that giving a strong dose to someone who is 9 is a very bad idea that would probably be very unpleasant for the kid. There can be a tendency for people to overcompensate to "reefer madness" propaganda and tell people there are no issues with marijuana. It's probably a lot better than alcohol, but it's still a psychoactive substance that needs to be treated with respect.
Fortunately, the mother in this article seems to realize that and has put in a lot of effort into proper dosing:
>After the cookies finished baking, I’d taste a few crumbs and annotate the effects in a notebook. Often, I felt woozy. One variation put me to sleep. When I had convinced myself that a batch was okay, I’d give a cookie to my 9-year-old son.
Absolutely - I hope my comment didn't read otherwise.
I'm just pointing out that the effects of a strong dose of heroin are nothing less than an urgent medical emergency and possibly a life-or-death situation.
The effects of a strong dose of cannabis are, as you say, likely to be quite unpleasant, but for other, less dramatic reasons.
Additionally, it is much, much easier to find a therapeutically effective dose of cannabis that is not unpleasant (or even otherwise noticeable) than with heroin or, for that matter, most other medical treatments. This is the killer feature of cannabis.
Except synthetic cannabinoids have killed people. Marinol/Dronabinol has cost people their lives.
Nobody ever gave me drugs. I don't think it is ideal to give kids weed (I'm an adult who can barely handle weed). It is linked with psychiatric problems. That's not anti-drug propaganda, that's a fact. All that said, I don't think this is any worse than giving a kid ritalin.
Causation or correlation? Are people with psychiatric problems more likely to self-medicate with MJ? The conclusions drawn from the facts you mention are dubious at best.
> Once, when my son was late getting his cannabis oil after school, he put his head through a window and cut his face in a frenzy of pain. We gave him his medication, and he calmed down enough that we could bring him to the ER.
Any reason to believe history won't repeat itself here?
Seems like tolerance isn't really an actual problem here.
Are you suggesting these parents have some course of action to cure their child's problems? The child could relapse, but I don't understand what point you're trying to make.
What rubs me the wrong way about this article is that it's written in such a way that any parent whose kid has a problem with tantrums might think, "hm, what if I just drugged up Johnny?"
That is not at all clear from the article. There is no talk of withdrawal. If you take away pain meds and the pain comes back, that is not withdrawal!
OTOH, these specific parents, I can't even imagine what they're going through. My heart goes out to them. A child like this would be so difficult to raise & to help, and obviously they have so much love & dedication just for their willingness to stick it out, I'm so glad a little THC works for them, as opposed to having nothing that works, or some other pharma cocktail that "solves" the problem through vegitating the kid's brain. Anything that gives them a semi-normal existence has to be a Godsend.
Any reason to believe it will, other than it being a cliche?
It doesn't seem like tolerance is an issue here:
> And seven years later, it’s still working.
I still don't really get what your underlying point is.
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I'm curious why you shared this piece of the article? Are you attempting to say his fits of rage were due to cannabis withdrawals? I thought it was pretty clear from the article that this was the issue that was being treated.
Some clarification would be nice.
> At the time he was consumed by violent rages. He would bang his head, scream for hours and literally eat his shirts. At dinnertime, he threw his plates so forcefully that there was food stuck on the ceiling. He would punch and scratch himself and others, such that people would look at the red streaks on our bodies and ask us, gingerly, if we had cats.
But when I got the cookies right, he calmed down. His aggressions became less ferocious and less frequent. Mealtimes became less fraught. He was able to maintain enough self-composure that he even learned to ride a bike — despite every expert telling us it would never happen.
> Since he was an infant, I’d watched my son struggle. At 18 months, he underwent two major spinal-cord tumor surgeries, only weeks apart, and was immobilized in a cast for a year. After that, the violent rages began — sometimes as many as 300 in a day.
Granted I think the war on drugs is stupid but I also think a failed parent shouldn't be the one championing the anti-war-on-drugs movement as that's only going to give the opposition ammunition.
I'm also not a developmental psychologist or a medical professional but I don't think this is the best thing for a young developing mind. I'm probably wrong because I've done limited reading on it but giving a young kid any drugs that haven't been exceedingly studied by the medical community doesn't sound like a smart idea.
Edit: I read the article a little further and I don't think the parent is "failed" anymore. It's sad that the kid had such an already tramatic upbringing and I understand why you'd do this but I don't think that it's the best of ideas for most people alive.
But yea, you're right. Was bad to jump to a conclusion.
As for the "smart": I consider the ability to recognize when one does not have sufficient information to have a useful opinion to be smartness. :)
TBF the parents did talk with a neurologist and medical experts at Brown, which is hardly a backwater.
I understand what you're saying, but I also think that this is a tough parenting decision that should be left to the parent and their family doctor.
Experimenting with dosage and type in a home pharma lab is pretty terrible. The people refusing to reschedule marijuana despite widespread medical support really are terribly evil for putting a parent in that situation...
I agree on all accounts.
> TBF the parents did talk with a neurologist and medical experts at Brown, which is hardly a backwater.
> I understand what you're saying, but I also think that this is a tough parenting decision that should be left to the parent and their family doctor.
I did see that and I didn't read that until after I wrote the post. I mainly kept my post up in whole (despite my edit at the end) because I don't belive in covering up my mistakes.
My position given the new information isn't exactly as hardline. I don't think they are moraly or ethically at fault but I think their methods are very flawed. Just trying random things at home isn't a good idea.
I'd rather have seen them contact, and I know this is going to sound really stupid, but someone who is an expert at creation these confections. Going to someone who works with canabis every day at a medical dispencary (or even writing them and CCing your doctor who talked with you) would have probably lead to better results. It's still very irresponcible to just mix and match with a person's life.
I wouldn't want someone who couldn't consent entering drug trials so I wouldn't want someone doing it to their kid. But then again it ended up going well.... this time that is. If it happens again and someone mentally scars their kid then I think people won't be too happy with it then.
All that being said (and I think this needs to be spelled out) I don't think what I think should influence the parent in this case. I don't belive in interference unless directly requested by an effected party. That's just butting your nose into some place you don't belong.
Before making assertions, at least do some basic fact-checking. It doesn't help the discourse to manufacture facts.
> You're leaving out that most of Colorado has prohibited dispensaries or greatly marginalized them. Legalization is mostly in Denver.
The site I linked to clearly shows that there are cannabis shops all over Colorado, not just in Denver: Boulder, Durango, Pagosa Springs, etc. etc. So I'm not putting any words in your mouth, just quoting you directly and then showing that the data contradicts your statements.
Last december I spent a week in Amsterdam.
Smoking weed appears to be completely legalized there and it's a non issue.
We excuse this because she's in a desperate situation and there's a lack of support. But other people in her situation resort to more harmful forms of quackery.
The answer shouldn't be "quackery is fine so long as it doesn't result in terrible harm", but "we as a society fail people with autism and learning disability, and we need to do better".
He is a child, they are his parents. They have every right to choose his treatment
>quackery
If medical science had an alternative you may have a point. These parents ran out of options
> If medical science had an alternative you may have a point. These parents ran out of options
Exactly the point I made above. Lack of options does not mean parents can just try anything else. Some parents with no options chose bleach to treat autism. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...
This mother has no idea what harm might come to the child as a result of her experimental treatment. If she's doing it to herself that's one thing, but she's inflicting it on a child.
The article says She consulted with people specifically about the risks involved and was advised they were extremely low. How is that equivalent in any way to experimenting on children????