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> Xeon E3-1505M machine

Except they don't ship with ECC memory.

> 32GB, DDR4-2133MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMMS, Non-ECC [0]

So what's the point of having a Xeon? The Core i7 options offered for the laptop support all the same processor features [1], except ECC memory [2], which Dell isn't even shipping.

[0] http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstatio...

[1] http://ark.intel.com/products/88970/Intel-Core-i7-6820HQ-Pro...

[2] http://ark.intel.com/products/89608/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-...

Edit: I think it's a legitimate gripe, Dell is selling a Xeon but there's zero benefit over buying an i7 equipped model. But thanks for all the downvotes!

It's just more frequency and cache for me, but for enterprise there are more management features.

Maybe in the firmware Dell is shipping, but the CPUs are identical in their feature set as per the ark links I supplied.

The only difference in the processors is the Xeon supports ECC, while the Core i7 doesn't. But Dell isn't shipping the laptop with ECC anyway.

The specifications don't even list support for ECC RAM! [0]

[0] http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheet...

> The only difference in the processors is the Xeon supports ECC, while the Core i7 doesn't. But Dell isn't shipping the laptop with ECC anyway.

The clock is faster, try the compare link[0].

And since I originally bought a XPS 15 with the i7-6700HQ then scored a deal on a Precision E3-1505M motherboard and frankensteined my laptop, I spent 30 seconds doing a benchmark[1]. The tl;dr is that for 6% faster clock, you actually get about 10% better performance, so the cache is contributing. Is it worth the Xeon mark-up? Probably not if I didn't come across a deal, but hey, this thing still costs way less then the local fruit farm alternative.

[0] http://ark.intel.com/compare/88967,88970,89608

[1] https://github.com/kylemanna/dell-xps-9550-precision-5510

> The clock is faster, try the compare link[0].

Now the interesting question is of course whether that 3 % difference holds up when these are used in an actual laptop, ie. does it make a difference before all of them throttle anyway?

> does it make a difference before all of them throttle anyway?

I thought this as well, figured the i7-6700HQ was popular because it maxed out the thermal design, but haven't observed this.

Mine didn't throttle at all. Test setup was on a desk plugged in to the 130W power adapter, nothing special. The benchmark ran for 10 minutes without throttling, note that Github tests show that the first pass was just as fast as the last.

If anyone is really interested, I can run the tests again, but I expected it would throttle after a few minutes of the fans roaring and hence why I ran a few tests back to back and averaged them. Also, I cut the test short because I wanted to swap the motherboards and get on with life. :)

It may throttle if the Nvidia GPUs were enabled and working at full load, but they weren't as this is how I normally work and what I bought the laptop to do.

Update: Ran CPU Burn's `burnmmx` x 8 for 20 minutes and monitored it with i7z, and the cores remained at 3.3GHz the entire time with the cores ranging from 60C - 70C. Recorded it with asciinema, but apparently it doesn't play nice with tmux so it's not really readable.

I suppose the ability to install ECC memory on one's own is still a benefit. Still would be nice for Dell to ship with it, though, instead of requiring customers to buy it elsewhere.

What's the benefit of ECC on a laptop? Less frequent system failures? I haven't seen a system halt on my laptop in months.

Maybe better rowhammer resistance?

In Dell's Belgian shop at least, you can pick every memory config for the Precisions with or without ECC, provided you have picked a Xeon CPU as well.

I upvoted you. I agree that shipping non-ECC ram with a Xeon is at best unconventional.

+1 on this. And for people planning to buy an XPS, just wait for a month. new models of XPS are being announced at CES. https://mspoweruser.com/dells-new-convertible-xps-13-leaks-a...

The convertible, bezel-less XPS convertible = macbook pro + ipad pro

Actually convertible is a disadvantage for me. Why would I need this?

You don't need to use it, so I wouldn't count it as a disadvantage (only the things that come with it, like increased weight).

Reduced battery time (?), more stuff to fail and being dependent on software for hotswap functionality which may have some serious issues with non-Windows and even none NT10 based Windows operating system and the list can go on.

We're not talking about a fingerprint reader here. Convertible laptops have to make very specific design choices/compromises which come with some disadvantages currently.

this is FUD. reduced battery has nothing to do with a convertible form factor. You are talking about the display resolution perhaps - QHD displays are obviously more power hungry than FHD. But then again, most people want "Retina".

Software has largely matured for hotswap. Fedora 25 with kernel 4.9 is brilliant on a convertible. Windows has had it for decades.

We already use the cheaper yoga and Dell inspiron convertibles in my workplace. They are awesome. Dell and Lenovo have had many years of experience in building convertibles by now. We are talking of 500$ laptops here. The Dell 5368 hinges are well reviewed by now [1] [2]

IMHO the design of Yoga 900 (with its "watchband" hinges are unparalleled).

BTW, we are in non-Apple territory here. Replacing hinges is damn easy. You can buy a ton of them on ebay.

[1] http://www.techarp.com/articles/dell-inspiron-13-5000-laptop...

[2] http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/laptops/1404957/dell-inspiron...

No I do mean design constraints, hinged screen is one thing, a fully convertible one is another.

As far as the hinges, I had to replace the hinges on my Yoga 900 due to lose cylinders twice already under warranty.

Getting the wristband replacement as an aftermarket part hinge is well impossible.

On my Yoga 1 I've replaced the hinges myself and it never really fits like it came from the factory don't know if they do fitting but it's never 100% straight and with the amount of glue and crap they use to seal laptop with its never really like new.

Laptops with a rotating screen add complexity and have to add weight to make the laptop balance depending on the modes that the screen have to operate under.

They also have other design constraints for the keyboard and buttons which means the typing experience is often sub par due to a shallower keyboard and the screen has to be touch.

Laptops with a detachable screen as in convertibles have other issues including still blue screens (my Surface Book will still blue screen from time to time) as well as a lot more design constraints as far as what goes where in terms of hardware.

The Surface Book is probably the best designed by you still get a very top heavy laptop with a very small battery in tablet mode and problematic thermals.

If I'm buying a laptop I don't want a rotating screen, I don't want a touchscreen, and I don't want any of the crap that has to be tacked on or removed to allow it to turn into a tablet.

Touchscreens do use more power than equivalent regular screen.

As the OP suggested to wait for a few months for the new XPS 13 I thought this was about "touchscreen" vs "touchscreen + 360° hinge".

> this is FUD.

I wish people who stop using "FUD" as a synonym for "incorrect" or "wrong".

FUD ("fear, uncertainty and doubt") is a disinformation strategy to undermine the opposition and "influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear" [1].

FUD was famously a tool used by Microsoft against its competitors.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

what's the right word for "you are suffering from FUD that Apple has inflicted"?

you are fudded?

I got cheap HP envy 360 ($699) with convertible design.

Love that feature - use it a few times.

Great to convert it as huge 15 inch, 1080p, 16GB RAM tablet and browse the web/amazon with a few people together. 16GB makes is much better browser experience than ipad and most of the android. The con is that it does weight a lot more than regular tablet.

Well, the old non-convertible will get cheaper when the new convertible model comes out, that is advantage :P

If you get the XPS and plan on Linux, plan to buy the Intel 7260 2x2 WiFi card. I tried the Dell DW1830 3x3 Broadcom WiFi and the driver support is rough for both WiFi and Bluetooth.

They do not ship Intel/Broadcom anymore, the current gen has Atheros ("Killer") wifi.

Does anyone have any idea if I could buy the Intel wifi and have Dell swap it in? I have whatever the highest non business warranty support is at the moment.

You can choose the intel card on the Precision 5510, which is basically the same as the XPS 15. I doubt you can send your intel Wifi card to Dell and have it installed.

It takes 10 minutes to do it yourself. The Intel card costs about $15, consider getting the 8260, which is $5 extra and newer (Bluetooth 4.2). While your at it swap out the M.2 SSD for something bigger (1TB ~AU$600)

I don't know, but I swapped it myself recently and it was easy, once I found a T5 screwdriver and a guitar pick.

I had the 7260 but for some reason it was slow and was always dropping the connection. Happy with the 8260 now.

Oops, I meant 8260. That's what I'm using.

Since my MacBook Air is long in the tooth (4 GB ram, non-upgradable), I'm thinking of getting an XPS when they're announced. Kaby Lake + Iris sounds fantastic, I hope that's what they announce.

A lot of people who buy Thikpads, myself included, are doing so mainly for the track point, which the XPS doesn't have.

The XPS touchpad is comparable to Macbook one, you won't miss the track point.

I was forced to use a Mac for one of my job ; didn't get converted to the touchpad!

I prefer using a Trackpad, however the Thinkpads have a middle button, which I use all the time in Linux.

I think by default hitting the left and right mouse buttons in linux emulates a middle click. You can also configure three finger clicks as a middle click, which is my preference.

The Thinkpad p50/p70 also have the Xeon option and can be configured with ECC.

I just got through installing Ubuntu on my p70...love it so far. I've lost count of how many Thinkpad Linux Laptops I've gone through over the years, but not a single one ever failed or had compatibility issues with Linux: my 6 year-old w510 is my DHCP server has been up and running for 467 days running Ubuntu (it was powered off due to a power outage). There's a w540 and w520 sitting idle, and other T-series ones that are unusable only because the batteries are shot. Well-built and reliable.

How's the keyboard and the TrackPoint?

"just works". Touch surface is smooth, clicks require slightly more force then an old rMBP I had. Only real concern is that it might be too sensitive and clicks while my finger is hovering. This might be configurable, but haven't cared enough to try.

As for keyboard, feels great to me, but I'm not that picky.

That sounds like a trackpad.

With discovered you mean you bought one? What about the noise and battery time under normal and high work load?

I used to have a Dell Precision M4800 and honestly you don't buy them for battery life. They're desktop workstation replacements that you haul off to meetings occasionally. I got about 2-3 hours of battery time on that thing when running usual work-related workloads on it... (IDE, VM's etc.). I don't remember the noise, but I'm not very sensitive to noisy laptops so I may have never noticed.

I miss that laptop. The build quality was through the roof and it was solid as a brick.

The new Precisions are a lot less Desktop workstation replacements and more power efficient. I wonder if they still offer the same kind of performance though.

> I wonder if they still offer the same kind of performance though

Base clock speed is down a tick (2.7ghz vs. 2.8ghz) compared to previous generation Intel chips in the M4700/M4800 line vs. the new Precision 5510. Same 8M cpu cache; presumably newer intel chips are more efficient and make up for performance difference elsewhere (e.g. less heat = less cpu throttling during intensive tasks).

Sitting on the fence here, waiting to see if Intel's next line of mobile CPUs bring significant performance improvements. Current setup (M4700, i7 extreme, 2 X SSD, 32GB) is awesome modulo the battery life, which is about 2 hours for minimal workloads.

> With discovered you mean you bought one?

Yes, ordered a manufacturer refurbished XPS 15 from eBay, apparently that's a popular thing to do. A day or two later I stumbled on a deal on the Precision 15 E3-1505M motherboard and took a gamble on swapping it. Worked out without any issues other then likely warranty complications if I ever go down that road.

I can easily get 6+ hours on it doing vim + chromium + GCC builds. If I baby it, it can do 10 hours I assume, but it's to the point it doesn't matter unless you need to go a weekend without charging.

My old System 76 ultra pro was lucky to get 2.5 hours doing the same things.

Most of my components are selected for power. I've heard the 4k display with touch is brutal for battery life and selected 1080p instead. I have 8GB of RAM, started to swap in 32GB but the baseline power at idle went from 5.25W to around 7W. The bigger 84Wh battery is an obvious choice and I use the Intel GPU 99% of the time (sometimes the Quadro M1000M for the rare times I play games via bumblebee).