Virtual Reality Can Leave You with an Existential Hangover
theatlantic.com
theatlantic.com
> “I understood that the demo was over, but it was [as] if a lower level part of my mind couldn’t exactly be sure. It gave me a very weird existential dread of my entire situation, and the only way I could get rid of that feeling was to walk around or touch things around me.”
> It seems that VR is making people ill in a way no one predicted. And as hard as it is to articulate the effects, it may prove even harder to identify its cause.
Ok, I know Inception was technically about dreams and not "strap a screen on your face" VR, but really? "No one predicted"? I've only ever tried an Oculus DK1 and didn't experience anything like this, but I think they're stretching it to say nobody imagined that this could happen.
How is this sensation any different from any other existensial crisis? There are many causes for that, widely discussed both in Western and Eastern Philosophy.
E.g. Sartre's most known work, Being and Nothingness, is very much focused on this. Sartre's Nothingness is, despite what you might think, a positive force and ultimately what provides for our free will; it resembles somehow the tabula rasa of Aristotle, the mind being a clean slate. You can imagine anything you want, completely unconstrained. This is in sharp conflict with Being; as a human in the physical world you are bound by external constraints: time, money, family etc. Most people will deny the conflict, believing that the constraints of their Being are compatible with their Nothingness. Acknowledgement of the conflict provokes existential crisis.
When we step into a VR world, we are brought away from the Being and closer to the true experience of Nothingness. We can literally experience anything, unconstrained. Thus when we return, we are forced to reconsider the Being, to reacknowledge its conflict with our inherent Nothingness.
Accordingly, the difference between this crisis and the ones experienced after the end of any immersive escapist experience, be it cinema, books or even music, is at best a matter of degree.
ExistenZ predicted exactly this, except with more advanced technology. I don't know if the author of the article just didn't do much pop-culture research, or if ExistenZ just happened to slip by her radar - as I recall, it wasn't very well received (unfortunately!)
eXistenZ is paused!
The next morning, I remembered this and realized I had never actually woken up, I just dreamt I had woken up. Unsettling.
It might have sth to do with drinking like 2 liters of strong tea and studying for exam whole night and day before.
This has been one of the side effects of my meditative practice.
The sequels did blur the line - Neo's abilities outside the Matrix seemed to hint that there was a higher level above ours.
Spooky - but it's just a targeted google ad. Somebody who reads about existential shenanigans will most likely have seen and enjoyed inception - and there's the top.
I came to understand that years ago. It was agonizing at first, but I've come to terms with it. I learned that if I align myself with things that are probably true, I can be happy. Certainty is simply not required anymore.
It seems to me that people who don't understand this principle (that almost nothing is certain) would be more prone to dissociative effects. As for myself, I find it hard to imagine VR would have any effect on my state of mind since I'm not convinced reality isn't VR anyway. :-)
Some move beyond the certainty of belief and get trapped in nihilism.
Those that move through nihilism gain a perspective on meaning itself, realizing that meaning is relative and can be objectified. All of meaning and reality become a playful flux of creation. Buddhists are the most studied in this regard.
A quick and easy read on different levels of human development can be found here:
http://newpossibilitiesassociates.com/uploads/9_levels_of_in...
For something with far more substance, I suggest metaprogramming by John Lilly [2]. At least he had the conviction to spend more than half of his life experimenting (radically) on himself.
[1] http://www.nature.com/news/over-half-of-psychology-studies-f...
[2] https://www.amazon.com/Programming-Metaprogramming-Human-Bio...
Are you suggesting the two individuals you mentioned are the originators of that line of thought? Why is it important to you that these two individuals are name dropped?
Besides, mentioning the originators of certain ideas and models and guiding people to their work is surely adding a lot of substance to the discussion.
Not defending the text you're talking about, but if you feel like it's "deeply flawed" could you please point out some concrete examples?
- Kohlberg's stages of moral development: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o...
- Some Thoughts on Kohlberg's "Stage 7" [pdf]: http://glasnost.itcarlow.ie/~garveya/Stage_7.pdf
My dad had an old saying:
"There's shit you can do shit about, and there's shit you can't do shit about".
Definitely can't do anything about whether we are in VR right now, or whether or not we actually exist.
It sounds trite, but forcing yourself into situations where you absolutely must deal with the immediacy of "now" is a good solution to existential angst.
I don't think it particularly bad advice myself.
Alternatively - the spatial scales are very different and an entire galaxy or ours is not observable by their 'naked' eyes.
Honestly, who wants to talk to some snot-nosed humans? They probably don't bother checking until the universe becomes one giant superorganism anyways. And even then maybe they just make their observations and ignore it as it tries to wave them down.
Except there it's the higher level contacting humans.
"You" seem to think that beliefs exist on a conscious self-aware layer of thought, thus "you" should be aware of them but if "you" have done any serious psychonautics or experienced traumatic events in childhood, "you" will realize that is not the case. It takes a lot more than simple affirmation to rid "yourself" of such demons. Reading books about ceremonial magick and the techniques that had to be invented over the years to deal with such problems can be very enlightening, if not fascinating.
So, when the mind experiences cognitive dissonance, the effects propagate to the upper layers and "you" may become aware of them. I guess my point (through experience) is that as long as there is a "you" there to begin with, cognitive dissonance and dissociation will be problems that "you" will have to deal with :-)
As to your original question, it has long been my view that "most people" are not self-aware enough for such matters to even register. Even those who do have the curiosity and inclination, don't really like spending a lot of time in that UNCOMFORTABLE space, and quickly reach for the nearest distraction or escape (living in a make-believe dream world) to help them cope with daily life. When the luster starts to fade, a new dream bubble (new goals and aspirations) is quickly conjured and entered.
I highly recommend Celia Green's "The Human Evasion" [1] to you, something tells me you will enjoy it very much.
It is fascinating to contemplate that dissociation may be the next stage in human evolution (leading up to ego-death and an emergent hive mind?) and that it may happen on a mass-scale, not through mysticism or magick or psychonautics but technology that has become so ubiquitous nobody can really escape from.
Of course it's kookery (which I'm forced to say to avoid mockery), but it's quite relevant.
See also the nam-shub of Enki from Snow Crash.
If you can't even convince yourself that you will experience the future then there is no reason to do anything. Suppose every moment you are transferred into the head of a different person. Or let's say that time runs backwards. What possible motivation do you have to do anything? Why take your hand away from a hot stove if you have no evidence that you will experience the after effects?
Limiting perception should not limit the objective reality, but I hypothesize it does limit the ability of the perceiver to easily manifest their own non-objective reality here in this "real world". Strangely enough, I just picked up Galapagos by Vonnegut yesterday and he's presenting a similar concept and I'm curious to see where he goes with it. I've been remiss in reading more of him.
When you are going in or exiting a VR or gaming existence, it feels just like shifting existing "goals" into existing "get it done slots". In Astronomer, for example, the "goal" is gathering Oxygen to breath/live and the "get it done" part is gathering building materials to construct devices which help you learn how to do more things. It feels like a life because I've done similar things in the real world to survive. I get sad when my little guy/gal dies, so who's to say they aren't "real"? I hope someone is sad and happy for my existence as well!
I wonder if the the dissociation may result from the resistance to comprehending an eventual truth which cannot be "unheard"? I'm OK with it because I think about it all the tim, but I'm sure it's frightening to just have it spontaneously happen to you without realizing what it is that is occurring.
Does anyone else have that? Late at night. After video games? I am 33.
I've come to piece with this now though, by managing to really accept that I actually don't care either.
As for "how do you know" - from memories. Same way you know everything else except last few hours since you last woke up.
Memory of what in deep sleep? Do people who come out of coma know how long they have been under for? In deep sleep, only amness remains.
The difference is between "I think, therefore I am" and "I am, therefore I am"
I say that a bit jokingly, but I imagine its a bit of the same feeling.
Growing numbers of people preferring an alternative reality is scary to me. And the idea that it may cause a psychological break with reality for a significant number of people is even scarier--as if we need more people disassociated and thus capable of committing heinous or anti-social acts.
Strange that we're just cruising into this with little alarm. Stranger still that we don't find any issue with a relatively small number of people literally jockeying to redefine reality for the masses for commercial gain.
The times they are a changin'.
That's unusually harsh. A lot of people involved in VR love it and want others to experience it. You make it sound like they are spreading a virus.
But, I won't quibble with that point. I mean, I do think that the economic benefit sets up the potential to "taint" the benovolenct love fest, but my much bigger point is WRT the very idea that a relative few people would redefine reality for everyone else by any motivation. It's an incredible amount of power to hand over and I think it warrants caution.
That they are seeking to profit from it simply underscores this point and adds an additional "Dystopian Future Sci-fi Creep Factor".
I think there will be negative and positive aspects if/when VR becomes mass market but it's the opening up of a new creative medium and on the whole that has always been a net benefit for humanity.
Degree matters. And, naming them both media doesn't make them qualitatively the same to begin with.
>I think there will be negative and positive aspects
Respectfully, one can use that argument to wave off any concern about anything. But, here, experiencing lasting and disturbing dissociative effects after walking away from the interaction is not the same as feeling momentarily sad after watching a film.
>that has always been a net benefit for humanity.
I'm not sure if that's categorically true but, there is certainly no rule that says it must always be so, irrespective of the actual medium or environment.
And, I think it's safe to say we are in uncharted waters here. We've never had a medium that competes with reality so effectively or whose effects are more akin to doing psychadelic drugs than reading a book or watching film.
I'm not willing to declare that a net positive just yet.
This is the entire plot of the novel "Snow Crash"
With movies/novels/etc., I've always experienced what you're describing as something similar to a feeling of loss--the world you experienced or the story you were involved in or the characters you cared about will no longer be there as a new experience, no longer have new experiences as characters, etc. That 'world' is gone.
With VR, even if I don't really miss the experience, I've experienced what I'd describe as a "readjustment" phase of between 10 minutes and a couple hours (depending on length of experience and how recently I'd been in VR) where the real world feels disconnected/less real. It's a much more intense and visceral feeling, and doesn't have the same undertone of 'loss' that movies/novels have. It isn't a "Man, I'm not actually a space pilot in the year 3000" feeling, or a "I'll never be able to experience that world again" feeling, it's more of a visceral disassociation from the real world, as though my senses don't feel like they can quite trust the inputs they're receiving anymore.
http://www.calmclinic.com/anxiety/symptoms/derealization
A friend that suffers from the condition could never really explain what it felt like. Then, he tried VR for the first time.
It's a standard brain/body signal interpretation issue that is already the subject of alot of study.
For example, the experiment where people seeing a fake arm in place of their real arm feeling whatever the fake arm "should" feel.
Hell according to the wiki, it even lists a specific VR case study from 2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_transfer_illusion#cite_no...
It's like playing a rpg with 'your' body as an avatar. Which means there's (almost) nothing left except pure will. Very useful, can be used to make a character do things it wouldn't normally do and/or become much more efficient. Everything seems inherently pointless, may as well go with inertia of old goals.
That's how I imagine the first transhumans to think, only with more than one body and hopefully truly independent (ie. mind uploading, distributed computing or something similar).
I did question reality a little bit on the way home etc, but that would surely be normal? I do remember feeling great taking off the goggles and thinking to myself how good it is to actually be alive and walking on the earth. I've heard others say the real world felt boring to them, but I felt the opposite.
If I felt dread about anything, it was seeing my friends son running around the room while his playmate sat there watching him for hours on end and vice-versa. I felt a little sad that's how some kids are now spending holiday time together. I guess they're probably having fun but it did seem a little anti-social and unhealthy. Infact, I thought about it a lot today.
If you're going that route, read the last section of the book first and then come back to the first two sections (:
Edit: interestingly, it seems the Wachowski brothers (sisters?) were inspired by the Vedanta (Upanishads), mantras of which may be heard chanted during key scenes such as the fight between Neo and Smith. Of course the grandeur of the philosophy in the Upanishads does not need the validation of a pop culture movie, but it's an interesting reference.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/9381094160/ref=pd_aw_sim_sbs_...
Edit; I also do see the kind of sadness some people describe after lsd/shrooms; the real world disappoints. It is literally going from something like Disneyworld straight to your own boring appartment the second you take off the helmet. Hell, new rides in theme parks are infested with VR; if you can have one of those robot chairs in your livingroom you actually have a modern themepark at home.
Despite all of its flaws, I wonder if S-types in the MBTI classification system would have a harder time than N-types; i.e., would an ISTJ feel weirder after being in VR than an INTJ?
Surprised this article gets a new flavor every year about what people feel they wish they had.
[1] Mine was 'people experiencing loss after watching avatar'
I mean, don't get me wrong there's all kinds of beauty to appreciate in a downtown metropolis. It just won't be raw.
SF: Muir Woods (available by bus), a dozen other forests by car.
NYC: Liberty State park, Jersey City.
Miami: Everglades, a 30 minute drive from Miami Beach in no traffic
DC: Rock Creek Park
Dallas: Roosevelt Park
But I guess was a little disappointed that I had to drive home, since I flew home from space in Google Earth a few minutes prior.
What's not real is our perception of reality - the mental model. VR only helps us realize that this is the case because it completely fucks with that model.
Now, the reality that we have an inaccurate model of is, imho, actually there, so there no need to worry - the problem is with you not with the reality (is that comforting?).
Anyhow, I really don't want to see VR banned because some people find it hard to acknowledge bugs in their brains.
Glad to see people are beginning to report on it more.
I don't think VR is the main cause of it, but I also don't think it would have happened without it.
I've been using VR for 3 years now on and off. Mostly off. About a year ago, after my longest VR session of ~1hr I felt DPDR for the first time and the effects of that lasted up to a few hours.
Around 5 months ago DPDR was triggered, but I was not using VR when it was happened. I don't think it would have been triggered without VR, but these all played a large role too:
1. I moved to a completely new city for the first time. 1.5 years ago
2. my best from from my hometown visited me the weekend it was triggered. 5 months ago
3. a stressful night the moment it was triggered. 5 months ago. stress was the trigger.
It's hard to say what role VR played. Clearly it was not the actual trigger. But I think it was large a part for a few reasons:
1. The feelings of DPDR after my trigger is essentially the same feelings as when it was temporarily induced from VR before the trigger
2. VR was my introduction to depersonalization. The first time I felt DP was from VR. 8 through 5 months ago.
3. I have never had anxiety problems or any mental health problems before.
4. ive been stressed plenty of times before =)
I think VR should best be avoided for anyone that is may be susceptible to DPDR.
I don't understand why people care about it. It sounds like Ultima Online, but with something close to Real Dolls™ maybe.
I guess, just like cosplay and furries, there's a subculture that's ambivalent enough about their own combination of desperation for stimulus, to give it a try and find attachment and occupy themselves within this form of media...