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Comment by lvs | Hacker News Reader

The story begins around 18:30.

After listening to these folks explain the situation of refugees and their legal status in HK, one wonders a bit why EJS decided to go there as his first stop.

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He answered this in an interview.

"Sure. So there's a couple assertions in those arguments that are sort of embedded in the questioning of the choice of Hong Kong. The first is that China is an enemy of the United States. It's not. I mean there are conflicts between the United States government and the Chinese PRC government but the peoples inherently we don't care. We trade with each other freely, we're not at war, we're not in armed conflict, and we're not trying to be. We're the largest trading partners out there for each other."

"Additionally, Hong Kong has a strong tradition of free speech. People think 'Oh China, Great Firewall.' Mainland China does have significant restrictions on free speech but the people of Hong Kong have a long tradition of protesting in the streets, of making there views known. The internet is not filtered here more so then any other western government and I believe that the Hong Kong government is actually independent in relation to a lot of other leading western governments."

transcript: https://mic.com/articles/47355/edward-snowden-interview-tran...

video: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whis...

As for why he'd go to a place with disappointing refugee policies, I don't think he was planning to settle there.

I work with some wealthy people. This is a fun topic and favourite topic--if the U.S. fell to fascism, where would you go.

The most popular answe is Argentina. The most interesting is Kerala.

I am from Kerala and genuinely curious - why Kerala? And why Argentina for that matter?

Far away from where American agents could find, or effect force, on you. Militantly independent local governments and financial systems, et cetera.

I have never heard the name before, but:

Kerala has the lowest positive population growth rate in India, 3.44%; highest Human Development Index (HDI), 0.790 in 2011; the highest literacy rate, 93.91% in the 2011 census; the highest life expectancy, 77 years; and the highest sex ratio, 1,084 women per 1000 men.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala

Interesting!

Yup, we managed to get some things right. Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model

I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere.

Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time.

Where do I go?

Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open.

Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks and Arabs, very few Southern Americans, and some Asians. I still stand by my claim. We're pretty chill and the rotten tomatoes amongst us aren't more than anywhere else.

The fact that our governments don't take action on a load of issues unless it affects their pockets -- or the entire rest of the world already addressed them and they feel very behind (pick one) -- is in the strict meaning of the word bad... but it does have benefits. For example we couldn't care less about the overly sensitive political correctness movement. Almost nobody around here hates LGBT people unless they become very vocal and attention-seeking. Or any other kind of people. Nobody screams "sexism!" when a woman isn't qualified for a job. Nobody has the resources to censor or monitor the internet around here as well. (For now.)

Additionally, Bulgaria and Romania offer one of the best internet connections in the world. (Estonia too, but that's in the Baltic area.)

If you can work remotely, you'll reap the benefits of living in a relatively cheap country with a foreign paycheck. Trust me, it feels pretty good and is very sustainable. (But hell, don't ever get stuck with a local regular job.)

I don't seriously think you'd use such a feedback in your decision making -- but consider it a biased anecdotal semi-informative piece.

But don't you always have to suck up to the US so your country doesn't end up getting Crimea'ed?

Maybe. 99% of us don't know and don't care.

I spent about 24 hours in Bulgaria. I arrived by train in a sleeper carriage, where we (my GF and I) were pick-pocketed while sleeping. As we wandered around Sofia, I caught another pickpocket, a woman, trying to undo the zip on my shoulder bag.

I couldn't wait to get out of Bulgaria. It will be a long time before I voluntarily revisit.

Pickpockets are everywhere. Don't generalize.

I'll agree however that unless you live in several parts of Sofia (the capital) the rest of the city -- and the country -- can be easily defined as a poverty-stricken sh*thole. =)

Let's just say I live in the bubble of the middle class and for that Bulgaria is pretty much perfect.

EDIT: You should absolutely avoid the trains in Bulgaria. Buses, planes, or walking. Not joking.

Interesting anecdote, never thought I'd hear a sales pitch for moving to Eastern Europe. But I must admit I've grown to appreciate the zero fucks given that is Eastern Europe. I miss when the Internet was the wild west, and used for circumventing bullshit. Now it's become where bullshit is born. I want to run naked in the streets covered in green jello (a la Denis Leary) every time I'm forced to look at social media. It would be nice to live in a place where no one suffers fools.

I can't generalize a country where I dislike a good chunk of the people -- but for what it's worth, people are busy, they go on about their lives and they rarely judge you out of nowhere. Posers and idiots do exist on the media, just like everywhere else -- that's a way to make money you know (no such thing as negative advertisement).

But the common folk is incredibly bullshit-resistant and that makes living in this country a bless for people who need the peace of mind.

Fascinating! I wouldn't have called either of those.

Why Argentina?

If you have hard currency it's one of the more beautiful countries in the world.

> Why Argentina?

Same core reasons as Kerala [1]. You're looking for places which would remain stable if America collapsed and where America would have a hard time projecting influence if it didn't.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13276490

Argentine seems an odd choice if you are looking for a place to remain stable in the event of (or, for that matter, in the absence of) a US collapse.

I mean, it's not even a particularly great choice in South America by that standard.

I'd do Ireland or New Zealand.

There is a short list of countries that won't actively help the US, be bullied into helping the US, and be able to protect defectors from the CIA. China is vulnerable to economic pressure from the US, Russia is to a lesser extent.

Well apart from China (which rules Hong Kong) or Russia, where else would he go? Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades).

> Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades).

India didn't exactly have to put anything on the line for this considering the Dalai Lama was sponsored by the CIA when he first went into exile...

Edit - downvotes but no response? It's well known that the CIA was involved in the Tibetan uprising that forced the Dalai Lama into exile, and that he was on their payroll at the time. Not even conspiracy theory stuff, just documented history.

>just documented history

People from HN expect links when you use such words. Could be the reason for downvotes I guess.

There is a point where that stops, no? I mean we don't provide links to the wikipedia page for the Holocaust...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program

The holocaust is also a widely know historical incident where as Tibet's struggles, while known by a few, aren't as wide nor as strong a historical impact to the globe.

This is common knowledge if you're even remotely aware of Tibet issues. It's an easy thing to forget that not everyone knows about this stuff. At my university in the 90s, Free Tibet was a thing and it was impossible to not learn about!

China doesn't rule HK, at least until 2047.

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