Ask HN: How much do you sleep? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How much do you sleep?

52 pointsryanmccullagh61 comments

This a bit off topic for HN, but I would like to know your sleep patterns, and what you do to get great sleep.

I sleep from 9pm to 4am, +/- 30 minutes. I was never a morning person but having a kid changed that out of necessity. From 4pm until 9pm, my life is absolutely frantic: commute and/or daycare pickup, feed, cleanup, bathe, and by 9 I'm exhausted. My partner stays up to work after my son and i go to bed. I tried that approach but was totally unproductive. Now I get up 2 or 3 hours before anyone else and in that time I get more done than I used to do in a normal 8 hour workday.

My team at work mostly get in and stay late which is sometimes difficult because I'm basically out of commission after 3pm. But I like to think I compensate by getting so much done in the early hours. I got dinged on a performance review for ignoring slack messages sent at 6pm. It was hard to swallow because I basically work 11 hours a day. I have to refuse meeting requests after 3pm, and if I get pushback, I offer to reschedule for 5am. Oh that's too early for you? So I have to accept your schedule? Fine, cut me a check for $80 because that's what my daycare charges for late pickups. Oops, this got a little off topic. But as you can see, work/life balance should really be renamed work/sleep balance since I'm working basically every waking minute that I'm possibly able to.

> I got dinged on a performance review for ignoring slack messages sent at 6pm.

Ugh, that's not reasonable on your manager's part.

> I have to refuse meeting requests after 3pm, and if I get pushback, I offer to reschedule for 5am.

That's also not really reasonable on your part. Of course it all depends on dynamics and mutual understanding, but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't.

While you are right that 5am is well outside of normal working hours, I have been at places that will do a 4pm meeting but won't do a 11am meeting because "a number of people won't be in, or won't be ready," and so on. I like the point that was trying to be made. This is why in organizations I run I actually restrict meetings to no more than 60 minutes per day as must be better 10am and 2pm. It's amazing how few meetings organizations really need to get work done.

> but 3pm is certainly well within "core hours" of a normal working day, and 5am certainly isn't.

So I get that, but how else can I approach the situation when I have to leave the office at 3pm in order to get to the daycare in time? I'm not truly expecting the rest of the world to adopt my schedule, but the reason I start working at 4 is precisely to compensate for not being available in the late afternoon. If anything I'm over-compensating because as I said, I usually end up working 11 hours a day.

It's sad that people who stay late are routinely lauded as committed heroes, but I get no points for getting 5 or 6 hours of solid work done before most of the company even gets started!

Again, I understand that 9-6 (used to be 9-5) is conventional core hours, so how can I defray negative perceptions when I'm physically unable to join meetings or respond to slack messages? Seriously I would love some advice on how to handle this, it's highly stressful and I'm always coming off sounding defensive :(

Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege. I think it's a great thing and I think that it's totally fine to work non-standard hours, but I also think that if you are going to make the choice to not be in the office during core hours (I'd consider 9-5 "core" but I think companies should define this) then it's also your responsibility to be available during those core hours when it's necessary. If a meeting needs to be held at 3 (which is a completely reasonable meeting time within core hours) and you need to be at that meeting then I think it's on you to make accommodations for that by having someone else pick up your kids that day or making some other arrangements since it's your choice to work a nonstandard schedule. Same goes for a 9am meeting and someone who comes in at 11am. In a work environment where employees can make their own schedule I think having "core hours" where every employee is expected to be available at least sometimes is totally reasonable since otherwise your personal schedule is going to be negatively affecting your job performance, and that's a personal responsibility issue, not a job issue.

> Personally, I believe a flexible work schedule is a privilege.

I'd like to challenge this, if you'll bear with me. I am not a cog in a machine, I'm not performing mindless repetitive tasks. My work requires exacting concentration and the liberty to set aside large blocks of uninterrupted time in order to be fully productive. I will spin this around: personally, I believe my company should feel privileged to have me work for them. Don't dare tell me I should grovel and feel grateful to my masters allowing me the privilege of a flexible work schedule. Why would they purposely enact counter-productive tactics that would not enable me to perform this work most efficiently?

In full disclosure, I do have one standing meeting one day a week at 4pm. On that day my partner will handle the daycare pickup. So I am not categorically opposed to later meetings. What I get upset about is being asked at noon to join a meeting at 4pm on the same day. It is impossible to make the necessary arrangements with such short notice. That's when I get snarky and say how about 5am tomorrow.

I understand that by convention it's reasonable to expect people to available during usual 9-5 hours. But don't use the language of "personal responsibility issue" with me about this. I will not allow any implication that I am being irresponsible or slacking off work simply because my schedule demands that I typically leave work at 3pm. It is deeply offensive to me because as I already said, I work my ass off and am far more productive than I used to be when I worked 10-7.

In principle I agree with you (see my other comment), but would also suggest that what you're doing requires a bit more communication.

For example, making sure all of your managers are totally bought in. If you were dinged as unresponsive, probably at least one person wasn't fully bought in or clear on the terms, right?

Same with your team, they should be able to see clearly on your calendar what times are blocked out. And there should be a note taped near your desk. And maybe an auto responder during off hours explaining how you can best help them.

Did I mention that even after syncing with managers on this, you'll probably have to periodically refresh their memory for as long as you work there?

Nothing at all wrong with what you're doing, but setting expectations is so important and requires diligence.

Thank you, that is excellent advice. I didn't consider the utility of ongoing communication and you're absolutely right about setting appropriate expectations with everyone, especially those I may not deal with on a daily basis.

Diplomacy is better than defensiveness. I do want people to know that I'm accessible, and should do a better job of spreading that message.

I'm with czep on this one.

I call bullshit - This sounds like you are defining artificial constraints based on what fits your personal experiences and preferences.

The imperative is to hire and retain superior talent. If you're going after a top performer and they say right up front "I'm interested but can you work with me on a bit on scheduling?", usually the correct answer is yes.

Even if it were an easy to fill a position my inclination would be to try and accommodate the person. It gives you a chance to pay it forward at very little cost to you.

This is what good leaders do - they find ways to attract great people and motivate them by building a foundation of goodwill.

I think this is good advice in the context of the OP's current situation. However, the concept of "core hours" is a somewhat outdated legacy of industrialization, and is of questionable value in the knowledge economy, with all of the innovations in communication available to us now. For example, many companies employ foreign workers who are not around during "core hours", and while it presents challenges for communication, companies that are motivated find ways to make it work. I suspect that companies able to be flexible about where, when and how much employees work will have a competitive advantage in the next decade.

If your hours are 4a-3p then those are your hours and you shouldn't be put in the position of having to defend them. Anyone who interacts with you should know that, should schedule meetings accordingly, and that's kind of it. If people are expecting you to do things after 3p then you remind them that you work a different schedule. If they still press you then that's on them for being unprofessional and you can escalate up the power chain as you see fit.

Scheduling a meeting for 5am does not overlap with most people, while scheduling a meeting at 3pm does. You understood that when you scheduled it for a time that you were available and your coworkers weren't.

They're not wrong for wanting what they want, and you're not wrong for wanting something else. Find a job where you don't have to be online at 3pm sometimes or 6pm anytime. There are good jobs out there that will accommodate that.

I feel like I could have written your reply myself.

9pm to 4am for me, I'm the first to the office (on our team at least) by about two hours. I leave at 3pm to get the first kid from daycare, then head home and walk over to the school to get the second kid. After that it's 100% family time until I fall into bed. And like you, early morning is my most productive time at work by far. Fortunately my manager and team are totally okay with my hours. I haven't rescheduled any meetings for 5am but I do refuse anything that starts after 2pm and it hasn't been much of a hassle. We also have part of our team in Hyderabad so being in the office early actually works out kinds nice because if I need to I have overlap time with them (they habitually work later hours than we do -- when I was down there visiting, if I got in the office before 10am I'd be the first guy from our team).

Very straightforward and educational post. Thank you! I made a choice years ago, but recently started to waiver. You set me straight, and for that I am grateful.

I will stick to cats.

a wise choice :)

For most of my life, if I wanted to be productive, I aimed for 10h of sleep. Yes, really, ten hours. There is nothing like a good amount of sleep to make you productive. If its about achieving a certain goal, without pouring a specificed amount of hours into it every day, it is the best solution to let your brain refresh every night as much as it can. I don't hold any self-optimization approaches in high esteem; I found that, indeed, nothing helps as much as an healthy amount of sleep. This is not only important for my brain, but also for my stomach, and, especially, my eyes, I have found.

When "working a specified amount of hours every day at a minimum" is the modus operandi, I tend to make sure I get at least 8 hours of sleep at night.

Recreational days are strictly exempt from this policy. If my intellectual output does not matter, e.g., during holidays, I do not care whether I sleep 7 or 12 hours, then I strictly care about my well-feeling only. This might indeed involve vast amounts of cheese, red wine, and whisky. ;-)

The normal 8 hrs here. I don't set an alarm (unless getting up early for something) I just wake up when I normally wake up. This means I go to bed very consistently and earlier than most of my peers.

The main thing I need to sleep is total darkness.

Some years ago I read that people don't need as much sleep as they think. In an attempt to gain some extra time in the day I experimented with reducing the amount I slept. I found even a little less sleep has a significant adverse effect on me; lower energy levels, irritability, reduced attention span.

Anywhere from 6 to 10 hours, with the occasional 5-hour or 12-hour nights. If I could, I'd sleep from 1:30-2AM until 10-11AM. I can get away with this every now and then when my schedule permits. I'll spend 30-45 minutes on email, eat a big lunch, and then work for 6-7 hours straight.

I haven't had much look finding sleep strategies. Screen or no screens, my mind will race while I lay in bed until 1AM or so. I've found it to be a great time for me to think about my work as I end up doing a lot of 'background processing' while I sleep.

This is something I have been researching. I feel like I am constantly tired even if I get 8 hours. The strange thing is I went on a 5 day hike earlier this year, no tech uncomfortable sleeping spots, no pillow yet I slept and woke up super refreshed.

My theory's are:

Could be related to physical activity, no tech, went to bed early and woke up before sunrise.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

That is due to your exposure to sunlight, which helps set circadian rhythms. It's pretty well known that a bit of camping can help insomniacs or people with poor sleep.

Also, sunlight helps you wake up. I'm not a morning person, but when I went on an island holiday where the sun beamed into my room at around 5am, I never had any trouble waking up at that time. Also, I was spending all day outside, which supports my first point.

Aside from that, physical activity, and lack of artificial light exposure helped you fall asleep early.

> I feel like I am constantly tired even if I get 8 hours.

This is a classic symptom of hypothyroidism, maybe you should get your thyroid checked.

are you a doctor?

more like a patient... :P

I have similar problems and I'm certain technology kills my "natural" sleeping and living patterns. I'm not good with technology, but that's the only thing I know how to do and love... I'm thinking about leaving the technology all behind, even smartphones and casual things and start learning a trade like carpentry.

For a million years I was a 'night owl' and did 2am, 8am or so sleep. I changed about 2 years ago to more like a 11pm, 6:30am or so.

I know that a lot of people think it's a good idea and all that, but I think my productivity overrall is way down than it was before.

Twist in the story is that, being aware of that, I'm unlikely to change back, as the new schedule gives more more time to do /other/ things than being productive... For example, I hit the office at 7am, and leave at 3pm, and have the whole afternoon 'off' technically.

most days 8-9 hours. 5-7 during stressful times and on occasion 10 when "catching up" on sleep.

I prioritize sleep as I think thats the single best way to live a long life and to have a healthy brain. After all, for most us, its our livelihood and I'm hoping I can avoid serious neurological diseases and disorders just by getting a full night's rest as often as possible.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/10/18/23621181...

When I had a regular job, I could do with about 6hrs of sleep, but eventually over time slept debt would accumulate, and I'd sleep one day (usually Saturdays) about 10hrs to catch up.

Now, that I work on my schedule (getting a startup off the ground), I regularly sleep 9hrs, sometimes 10. Time to time I have coding marathons (when I am doing something exiting), that might cut my sleep to only 5-6 hrs a day, but that usually lasts only about a week and my productivity drops. I noticed with 9hrs a day, building muscle is easier, I have less body inflammation, and no stress or anxiety. The quality of my code is substantially better as well.

Bottom line: I thought 6hrs a day was enough, but I see that naturally my body wants about 9hrs of sleep, and the 'plentiness' of sleep affects my mood in good ways. This is probably some of the happiest times of my life, even though it is the middle of winter here in NYC.

I sleep 5-7 hours per night, very broken up b/c of a nursing baby and because our primary heat source is a wood stove that sometimes needs to be restocked. I am quite adjusted to broken sleep after doing it for the better part of 6 years (my oldest is 6).

Sleep is a valuable resource even if I don't always treat it that way. The biggest helps for me:

1. Stop using computers, phones, etc, at least 2 hours before bed. Lots of people recommend this to help with the "quality" of sleep, but I've also noticed I fall asleep _much more_ quickly when I follow this rigorously.

2. Prioritize extra sleep every so often - that means skipping "fun" things like reading before bed after the kids are down.

3. The occasional mid-day nap works wonders.

I used to sit in bed for like an hour just... trying to fall asleep.

Realized it was specifically because I was staring at my phone/computer/TV right before bed, which was both pouring bright light into my eyes at night, and even worse, giving me something to think about most of the time (work, news, etc).

I started meditating instead for about 15-20 minutes before bed and now I'm half asleep before I even lie down.

8 or 9 hours.

Moderate exercise and a clean diet, along with reduced stress have improved my sleep markedly (I've had sleep problems for almost 2 decades now).

I sleep 2-8:30am during the week, and 2-10am or so on the weekends. I could maybe try going to bed at 1am, but going to sleep before midnight usually results in being awake from 3-5am which is stressful if I feel I have to get up the next day.

One interesting thing I've noticed, is that when I get 8+ hours of sleep, I'm happy but not as productive. On 6.5 hours of sleep, I'm a little grouchier but a LOT more productive. It's like I get into a mode where nothing feels right so I may as well just bang it out and get it done, whereas when I feel 100% mentally, I spend more time noodling and trying to find a better/perfect solution.

I'm 40 years old and a software dev, btw.

I'm 29, and I still don't have enough frontal lobe development to go to bed at a healthy hour. A flexible work schedule doesn't help either. There's a big difference between going to bed at 11 PM and sleeping 8-10 hours and going to bed at 2 AM and sleeping 8 - 10 hours. The rest just isn't the same. When I really want great sleep before a big interview or something, I turn off all things digital and yoga/stretching, basically a wind down routine.

As a night owl myself, I agree.

When I really want great sleep before a big interview or something, I turn off all things digital and yoga/stretching, basically a wind down routine.

You have to start doing that as a matter of course. It can't just be for the night before an important day, it has to be routine.

When I practice proper sleep hygiene, I feel immeasurably better. Usually takes about a week, maybe two. Think of staying up late like eating poorly. You can do it once in a while, and that's more than fine, but you can't make a lifestyle out of it without big consequences.

I am exactly the same way, and have been since I was young. I didn't wake up early for Santa: My parents woke me out of excitement. I feel better, physically and mentally when I sleep and wake at the later times. I sleep through alarm clocks at times as well, and it took me years to figure out how to minimize this.

I feel great right now, but I'm not working and waking around 11 or noon.

And as a side note: I'm 38.

3-5 hours per night, depending on what I'm doing. I usually end up switching off the book around 0300, the alarm is set for 0620, children get up at 0730, I drive them to school at 0815, work on the farm and work on different projects between then and 1315/1415 when it is time to get them from school again, after that my time is divided between work, children, food preparation and such. Around 2200-2300 I'm 'free' again to do some more work, this time usually something IT or electronics-related. Bed around 0200-0230.

I never was much of a sleeper, not even when growing up. When I was around 12 I used to switch off the radio when the boring night programming started (I still hear the beginning tunes of those programs in my head and remember the dreary sensation which came with them: time to tune out and read a bit more...). Officially I don't get enough sleep and I should suffer from all sorts of ailments but... I don't.

The children are 5 and 12, I'm 51.

You're not alone in needing very little. I myself need the usual 7 1/2-8 to feel good, but a long time ago I did martial arts with a guy who slept 4 hours a night, from 1am to 5am. He just didn't need more, and enjoyed more free time than most of us get.

Colloquially referred to as the "efficient sleeper gene" or "super-sleeper gene", a quick search of these terms, or DEC2, reveals some lucky people among us get by - indeed thrive - on 4 or 5 hours of sleep per day.

Famous examples include Kobe Bryant and Donald Trump (please suspend irrational partisanship for just one minute - ducks).

I'm not big into basketball but I was thoroughly inspired by Kobe legends (linked below). Favorite among them, John Celestand jealously pleased he might finally beat Kobe to training one day after Kobe's wrist was broken, only to find Kobe still there first, and training just as hard as usual, only with his off-hand.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2dzolu/compilation_of_... http://www.viralhoops.com/kobe-bryant-motivational-stories/.

I just bought one of those Phillips wake up lights. Only been two weeks, but now I have way more energy in the morning, usually enough to get up and do 30 min of exercise and be finished before i had previously finished dozing. I find I am slightly awake 15min into the light cycle, and fully away 25 min in ( 5 min before the alarm actually goes off)

I sleep between 3 and 11 hours which sounds strange until I mention I also don't go to sleep every night or live within the confines of any given time zone... wait that still sounds strange. I'm strange.

I have a ten month old daughter. I vaguely remember the concept of a regular sleeping pattern, but I can't for the life of me, remember what that would be like.

It gets better, I know being in that zone you can't imagine what "normal" life is like but trust me it gets better.

Right after my son was born when I was on paternity leave, I slept in two shifts, for about 2-3 hours if I was lucky. I pulled the night shift and got to sleep around 5am when my partner and in-laws woke up to relieve me. Then I'd get another 2-3 hour cat nap in the late afternoon.

While doing the overnight shift, in the rare moments when all the baby's needs were met I took to studying bash. I wrote some really crazy cryptic bash scripts! Of course I totally forgot everything I learned but for awhile I felt like a zen master of bash.

Thanks for your kind message! :)

I'm usually in bed 7-9 hours. Occasionally I sleep less, and very rarely more. Right now, I don't work so I usually sleep around 3-4am and wake between 10:30 and 12.

I've always slept well so long as I'm not on a morning shift: In this case, I just let myself sleep most days.

If I have to get up early, my sleep quality suffers even with good sleeping habits. The difference between the waking times is stark. In these cases, I just suffer through it.

7-8 hours, more towards 7 depending on how much cardio I'm getting. If I'm going through a weight-lifting routine, I tend to sleep more, 8-9 hours.

If I fall asleep at 2am I wake at 9am, and if I fall asleep at 11pm I wake at 9am. The latter is extremely hard, so generally I just try to work around my night-owl body clock. I am most productive in the evenings anyway.

It's hard though, because there are a lot of early risers, and there's always an expectation that you must fully conform to the norm or else must be lazy.

I've been using the Eight "smart" mattress cover to track my sleeping patterns. I average about 9 hours of sleep.

The quality of that sleep though (per their algorithm) varies greatly. Some nights I sleep really well, others, I toss and turn all night. I'm hoping to figure out why that is, using their "experiment" feature.

11pm-6am most nights.

Best when I actually stick to a no "no screens policy" 30mins prior.

I also use f.lux (mac) and the Night Shift mode on iPhone.

I go to bed at 2am-3am, alarm rings 10:50, I reset it to 11:10, wake up, get dressed and walk to office without breakfast to be there at noon sharp. Not feeling well. On weekend, I would go to sleep even later, wake up after 9 hours of sleep and still feel like crap.

I prefer 9 hrs if I can, scales down to 6 during stressful periods but if I do less than 6 for a while it becomes a real problem. Hours are all over the place, this summer I was sleeping midnight to 7:30, right now I'm 3a to 11/12

8 hours, give or take. In bed by 10pm, read for a bit, alarm at 6am. Doze a bit while my wife showers, then up and get myself ready.

I try to work out 5-6 times/week. Without it, I sleep lighter and inconsistently. With it, I usually sleep well.

9pm - 5am, ideally. But just as often, I get off schedule, and end up doing a split of 9-1, be up for 4 hours, then 5-9.

For the best sleep, I take melatonin, I exercise in the mornings, avoid caffeine after lunch, and avoid naps.

In bed by 9pm, asleep by 10, and wake up around 6-7am. I've found that a full night of rest enables great productivity. And things are a lot less crowded and traffic-y early in the morning!

I get about 6.5 hours of sleep every night on weekdays. Closer to 8 on weekends.

I graduated from college a year ago and I used to get around 6 hours of sleep daily with a 20 minute nap.

I'm 23, by the way.

6-7 hours. If I sleep for longer, I feel like shit.

6-8 hours on weeknights, 8-10 on weekends

I sleep from 11/1130pm to about 7/730am. I live in San Francisco and sleep with earplugs in

364 nights using the Sleep Cycle app and I have an average time in bed of 6.5 hours.

Around 7 hours most of the time, from 1:30-8:30am

8-10 hours

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