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I do not agree. It is not about magic, it's about neglecting the user group that made them rich in the first place.

Apple actually stopped making pro hardware. They're unpredictable when it comes to upgrades(15 Retina ethernal Haswell, 2013 Mac Pro, even iMacs), they do not seem to have an idea how the platform should evolve and they're obsessed with thinness, while in the pro market performance and battery life are vastly more important.

Last but not least, their recent idea of progress is gimmicky touch bar and emoticons everywhere. Sorry, it just does not fit. Add to it degrading software quality (iOS10 sucks, MacOS just got rid of battery prediction, because they couldn't work with new processors - come on!), frozen progress on software front in general and there is not much left.

Currently Apple is a company sitting on an extremely large pile of cash and they have not idea what to do with it. Not sexy at all.

It was not the pro users who made Apple rich. It was the consumers buying iPods, and later iPhones.

Pro users are at the same time extremely demanding and extremely conservative. Apple has never done much to cater to that market, and the fact that they have so many pro users these days is a happy accident which has more to do with how awful these people used to be treated when they were Windows users, and not a lot to do with anything Apple did specifically for their sake.

Apple doesn't care about pro users, whom they rightly consider demanding and ungrateful. Apple cares about ordinary people, the ones lots of pro users talk about often in the most condescending of manners. Apple's mission has always been to make computing accessible to the masses (remember the slogan: "The computer for the rest of us"?), not to make it better for the elite few who already know how to use one.

> Apple's mission has always been to make computing accessible to the masses (remember the slogan: "The computer for the rest of us"?), not to make it better for the elite few who already know how to use one.

Except the masses buy Windows 10 laptops that cost $199 or whatever. The Mac has never been "accessible to the masses" because they won't pay Apple's prosumer prices...

The world is not divided into rich tech elites who can afford the best, and uneducated, poor people whose only hope to join the tech revolution is buying the cheapest of the cheap. There is a huge segment in between.

It's true that Macs have never been the cheapest, but many, many ordinary people buy them none the less. Why? Maybe because a lot of people need a computer, but hate using it. So they choose to spend a little more to get one that is a little less user hostile. That doesn't make them feel dumb. Maybe even delights them from time to time by the many small considerations its designers have made for them.

> many, many ordinary people buy them none the less.

True, but Windows still has around 90% (or more) of the global PC market. Windows actually brought computing to the masses. Apple didn't.

We are using the same words to mean different things. When I say accessible, I mean approachable and usable, whereas you seem to mean affordable. When I say the masses, I mean in contrast to the elite, whereas you mean the overwhelming majority.

Windows is approachable. MacOS isn't significantly different, in terms of usability, for the majority of the non-computerate public.

And however you define it, the fact is that Windows did bring computing to the masses and Apple didn't.

And you think finder is less hostile than file manger on windows?

I suppose it depends on which masses you're referring to, but when I look around at any public place in New Jersey where there are people on laptops, I always see a very healthy representation of Mac users. Of all ages.

Apple have something like a 10% market share. I think what you see in coffee shops and on expensive commuter trains is not at all representative; if you go into a Starbucks in a trendy part of east London, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Apple had a 95% market share, but I'm pretty sure if you go to, say, eastern Europe you'll see very, very few Macs.

I have noticed that as well. Mac users seem to feel the need to use them in public for some reason.

This could be explained by Macs working better on random networks and having better battery life than other laptops.

Anecdata: I know of several Windows laptops, but only one Mac laptop, which are now effectively desktops.

Did those laptops start out as expensive as a Mac, or were they low end machines?

Apple's PC market share is much higher in the USA than it is worldwide, and it's very low in Asia, apart from Japan.

Also, Apple's market share is much higher now than it was when the masses adopted PCs. That happened under Windows 95 (which nearly drove Apple out of business) and XP.

When Windows brought computing to the masses, Apple's global market share was closer to 2%.

I think that the more "pro" market might overestimate its own representativeness. Sure you can go to a tech meetup and see a sea of glowing Apple logos, but dominance in a relatively small portion of the market is still a small chunk of market share.

I said that pro users made them rich, I didn't say that they had done it by buying stuff.

Apple has been reaping rewards from the pro market for years. It's been those pro users who have been advocating the platform among friends and family. It's been those pro users who have been the perfect subject for those marketing campaigns showing how awesome new products are. It's been those pro users who write tech blogs and make the noise about Apple. It's been those pro users who made the brand what it is.

I'm not saying that pro users directly bring cash to Apple (they do that too - look at the number of computers IBM is buying and tell me it's not because of those pro users who made mac the ultimate development plaftorm). The point is, Apple was using the pro users as their market driver, creating positive buzz and actually telling people about the alternative (out of US Macs never been that popular). Also, basically any pro user is better for making an ad than normal user - normal users use stuff that's available in the browser everywhere.

Pro market does not have to be the main one for Apple. It has probably never been. The problem is that with pro users you lose a ton of market influence and its going to happen. The proof is in the article - Tim Cook would not bother to comment on the subject unless it was actually important. And it is important. Apple was always about the ecosystem. If they break the ecosystem, they will fail. Right now it does not look to good for them in the long run.

If you believe pro users have that kind of clout, you are delusional. The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone. In fact the reaction from the pro market to those products when they were introduced, was one of dismissal ('No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame'). These products succeeded on their own merits by being fantastic products and -- to a lesser extend -- on the strength of Apple's brand and marketing. The halo effect from these two products is largely responsible for the success the Mac has enjoyed in recent history.

I hardly believe that CmdrTaco's reaction on Slashdot to the iPod is indicative in any way of how the "pro market" responded to the iPod or iPhone.

Oh, but it was! As far back as I have followed this stuff, every new hardware category Apple has introduced, has been met with ridicule and dismissal from the experts. Every time the same: It does nothing new. It's underpowered. It's overpriced. It's just a [whatever] in a fancy box. It doesn't even [insert specialised use case].

    > If you believe pro users have that kind 
    > of clout, you are delusional.

Is it so strange? I have friends and relatives who ask me to recommend a computer. I'll bet you do, too.

    > The iPod most certainly didn't succeed because 
    > it was endorsed by pro users, nor did the iPhone.

Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product. It was Mac-only, and Mac-only at a time when the only people still using Macs were enthusiasts and pros.

    > In fact the reaction from the pro market to 
    > those products when they were introduced, was one of 
    > dismissal

That seemed to me to be more of Microsoft vs Apple thing. The culture has changed these days, and people aren't as dogmatic about it. Back then Mac vs Windows was like a holy war.

Back to present day, the effect of pro users isn't hard to see. Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill, and it's not the occasional think-piece, I see a new one every day (just read one on Bloomberg an hour ago). Heck, I read that Rush Limbaugh was trashing Apple last week. Not exactly a typical pro user. These views make it normal people, and don't make buying Apple products seem attractive.

Is it so strange?

No, not strange. Simply not true.

Actually the iPod, when it was first released, was not a mass-market product

Who cares what kind of product the iPod "actually" was, when it was first launched? The point is that it went on to become the biggest consumer electronics hit and Apple's most successful product ever. And it had nothing to do with endorsements from pro users.

Major publications have started writing articles asking if Apple has gone down-hill

Are you new on the internet? Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always. That is not a new phenomenon. Meanwhile Apple has enjoyed success like no other company ever.

    > endorsements from pro users.

I wouldn't use the word "endorsements" but I absolutely believe the approval pro users was vital. What technology journalist isn't a pro user at heart? There are some, like Mossberg, who try hard to write from the pov of the average user, but if you're writing about tech, you're generally a "power user" to say the least.

The iPod wasn't just successful because it was a good product. It was also "cool" because it was high tech. We were just coming out of the beige box era, and standalone devices of any kind that connected to a computer were less common. It had particular cache. If pros hadn't considered Apple good technology, it would have spoiled that, and I doubt the iPod would have sold as well as it did.

    > Are you new on the internet?

I am not.

    > Big publications have been writing doom and gloom stories about Apple always.

There is a massive difference between the tone of the press this year, and previous years. By the time Steve left Apple, it was exceedingly rare for the big publications to write any negative stories about Apple. They were terrified to, because Apple would cut them off from events, etc. There were exceptions, like Gizmodo who had nothing to lose after the iPhone prototype story, but it wasn't like this year, where most stories are negative.

By the way, the first iPod ad!

https://youtu.be/gS8iHrNpc2I

It doesn't have much bearing on this discussion. I just think it's interesting, all these years later.

I remember reading on Slashdot at the time that iPod users -- betrayed by the signature white earphones -- were getting mugged, and that this was evidence that the iPod was seen as a status symbol by people far outside the tech bubble.

If pros hadn't considered Apple good technology…

Was it a good product because the pros said so, or do you think perhaps that the pros said it was a good product because it actually was?

And why do you think that only pros are capable of judging if a tech product is good? Can't non-techies judge if a product is delightful or frustrating to use? Do they only know if they like it if someone who is an engineer tells them it's ok? In my personal experience, tech people give the worst advice when it comes to gadgets, because they often have bo empathy for the fact, that normal people don't have the time or the inclination to deal with stuff that might ostensibly have great tech, but is difficult to set up and finnicky to use. Non-techies want stuff that easy to use and just works, and don't care about specs or acronyms.

There is a massive difference between the tone of the press this year, and previous years.

Your original point was that pro users' influence was apparent in the fact that the press is writing negatively about Apple. To which I replied that the press always has written negatively about Apple with the implied point that the influence excerted thusfar, does't seem to have hindered Apple's success in the slightest. But you're telling me that because the tone has changed, this time for sure the opinions of the tech press will suddenly become relevant to Apples customers, even though most of them are not interested in tech and don't follow the tech press at all?

I wrote a long response, and deleted the whole thing. These comments aren't going anywhere, so we may as well revisit things a year from now, and we can see whether Apple's doing okay without its pro users. My guess is that Apple is in for a world of pain in 2017. If that doesn't happen, well, power to them! I've been wrong before.

I can count at least one imac, one macbook air and one iphone directly attributable to me. That's to my parents and a frugal friend who normally doesn't buy expensive things.

In my parents' case I simply couldn't provide them tech support since I switched to mac. So they switched over.

And then indirectly lots of clients and people in cafes have seen me using a mac, an iphone or an ipad. I'm sure that's contributed. And I doubt that's an unusual amount for the typical pro user.

I've heard that argument dozens of times, but I really can't understand it.

The App Store has millions of apps. Who created those apps, if not pro users? Without the App Store, who would buy iPhones, iPads and iPods?

If Apple shit on the pro users they shit on themselves.

Pro users are a more diverse group than just app developers. My impression is that app developers are not the ones who feel poorly served by Apple's current hardware lineup[1]. Which is not to say that app developers don't have other legitimate grievances with Apple.

[1] I know, I know; the disappearing of the escape key and the function keys affects everyone! Whatever will we all do?

I have to say Microsoft really nailed it with the Surface Studio (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-stud...). It's what Apple would have made already if they were "committed to the desktop" and wanted to stay true to their roots as the computer for creative work. They out-Appled Apple. Including the price, unfortunately.

>> it's about neglecting the user group that made them rich in the first place.

Well, times have changed. Apple is servicing the user group that is making them ultra rich now.

I'm not a big fan of the direction they've taken, but I also don't blame them for it.

It's easy to explain. Price.

I've been wanting a mac laptop the size and weight of a MacBook Air 13" ... how about the size and weight and price??

They removed a bunch of ports, reduced battery life and upped the price.

USD $1799 to $2799 (with touch bar). Pricing is out of reach. Especially if you live outside of the USA where exchange rate kills it completely.

I love the 13" Macbook Air, just wish they would add retina, retain the ports, AND the price point.

>> It's easy to explain. Price

I second that. I also agree with the OP that the amount of complaining about the MBP is a little weird considering it's still one of the nicest laptops you can get for the vast majority of users, but the fact that they found it necessary to increase the price even further really is somehwat insulting considering the few improvements they added compared to the (already very good) Macbook Pro. For all the waiting, I either expected more innovation, or better pricing. I'm not saying they should have decreased their prices, but they could at least have provided better and more options at the lower end.

Apple could have saved itself so much negative sentiment by simply not being so damn greedy, and by updating their existing desktop hardware (Mac Pro and Mac Mini) more often. They've now painted themselves in a corner where they can't serve a sizeable part of their target audience, but are asking crazy prices for them, even by Apple's standards.

Apple actually recognized that price is the issue.

By lowering the price of all the dongles shortly after launch, they confirmed that they may have underestimated how price sensitive their "Pro" market has become.

Mostly because the Pro market now encompasses everyone wanting to upgrade their lower-end MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs. Because there's no upgrade path for these users at the moment (other than the iPad Pro which is a non starter for so many reasons).

A new, 13" MacBook would be a good step towards bridging the gap, and providing an upgrade path for everyone else.

>> Mostly because the Pro market now encompasses everyone wanting to upgrade their lower-end MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs. Because there's no upgrade path for these users at the moment

That's exactly the boat I was in myself, my 2012 MacBook Air just wasn't cutting it anymore for my light Xcode use, but none of the MacBooks would have been much of an improvement in terms of computing power. Because I'm really not prepared to give up OS X yet I was basically forced to stick with the MBA, or buy a MBP at an even higher premium than before.

That said, I decided to close my eyes and plunk down the cash for a tbMBP anyway, and from a hardware perspective I love the machine, as I'm not affected by any of the (IMO for most people mostly artificial/overblown) 'problems' people are complaining about. None, except the price, which still leaves me with a bad taste. Something I haven't experienced with any of my numerous previous Apple purchases...

They’re way too expensive, graphic cards are weak, maximum RAM configuration isn’t high enough, and they’re clearly not designed for pros.

Reddit thread from 4 years ago (curtesy of Gruber): https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1244m4/apples_13_mac...

I completely agree. The battery life difference -- even those few hours -- are enough to drive me away. Combine that with an absurd price point jump, and I'm out. The macbook air 13" was the perfect developer laptop, and now I guess I'll buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 when this laptop dies. For my work, I don't need a big processor or high-speed RAM or high-resolution display. I need a light, usable laptop that will run all day surfing the internet in an airport. And the new MBP doesn't fit that use case.

And while the new 13" MBP is technically less volume, it's thick the whole length of it. There was something oddly nice about the MBA's shape when holding it in one hand.

It feels to me like you are putting this backwards. I've been using the MBP as my main software development platform for eight years now. My current machine is a maxed out mid 2014 15" MBPr. What does the new MBP offer me over that?

1) Very slightly faster. (2.9 vs 2.8) 2) 2 TB SSD instead of 1 TB. 3) Ability to charge and drive monitor over single cable.

But what is the price?

1) $4,199 -- nearly $1000 more expensive than the last one. 2) Complete inability to plug in any peripheral I already own without a dongle. 3) No physical ESC key.

It's only $150 more if I stick with a 1TB SSD. But if I do that, literally the only significant benefit I get from the new machine is the ability to drive monitor and charge over a single cable -- and of course, I've got to replace my existing (expensive, beautiful) monitor to do that.

Plus as an added bonus, they're discontinuing the Time Capsule, which has been my main local backup solution for years.

I plan to map caps lock to ESC (currently it's mapped to the command key)

For people with ESC in muscle memory, that's a non starter.

It will take you a couple of days to adapt, and it's good for your brain plasticity.

You must be young. I've been using the same Emacs bindings for 35 years. I've changed my muscle memory before, and it took far longer than "a couple of days to adapt."

For $150 the ssd is twice as fast at the least. The options for external monitors are also much, much better.

Twice as fast as the previous generation's SSD?

Yes!

    MBP Model        Read      Write 
    Jul 2014 15"   1.1 GBps  1.0 GBps
    May 2015 15"   2.0 GBps  1.5 GBps
    Oct 2016 15"   2.9 GBps  2.2 GBps

These numbers come from different posts found on BareFeats[1]. Official claims, and other sources of benchmarks show approximately the same numbers for large sequential data throughput. It is moving from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0, and an increase in the number of data lanes that have allowed these rapid improvements. SATA III of older models is limited to about 0.5 GBps up and down.

[1] http://barefeats.com/

Wow!

You nailed my two reasons for refusing to upgrade. I was planning to purchase the fully decked out MacBook Pro on release date. Then the keynote happened, and the hardware was put up for sale.

1. The removal of the physical escape key. I flat out reject having to remap the caps lock. The touch bar soft key is not an acceptable replacement. A physical escape key is unequivocally non-negotiable.

2. The price. I'm not going to pay $1,000 more for the same level of upgrades I got in 2013. With taxes, I had to dole out $3,200 CAD for a personal laptop, which was right against the fence of what I was willing to pay. I refuse to spend over $4,000 on a laptop.

These two issues, along with the removal of the headphone jack[1] on the latest iPhone puts me in the uncomfortable situation where for the first time in a decade I am researching alternative hardware outside the Apple ecosystem.

[1] My IEM headphones cost $1,500. I'm not going to carry an adapter to plug them in, and lose the ability to listen while charging.

The previous 13" rMBP was already close enough to the Air, IMHO. And MagSafe has literally saved my laptops from destruction dozens of times over the years. The TouchBar is a stupid gimmick. These new MBPs won't have the shelf life of the old ones because the specs aren't improved enough. And the battery time is reduced and the price is increased over the old ones.

They are a worse product in every way for me over my current rMBP. Literally the only advantage is they are thinner and lighter and the display has a wider color gamut. Not worth all the trade offs. The old ones already had plenty of USB ports which today are more useful than USB-C.

I think this has little to do with the "reality distortion field" and everything to do with Apple steadily and irreversibly appliance-ifying their product line combined with a distinct lack of any kind of indication of direction for Apple and actual computers for people who do work. A lot of people were waiting for the MacBook announcement to give some hint, and a lot of them think they got one: Not a peep about anything besides a slightly more appliance-ified (and nothing else) laptop.

Regardless of strategic Cook leaks: Apple is deprecating macs-as-computers-for-professionals. It should be obvious why; so many HNers love to cheer market forces. Apple makes way more money on phones and shiny things, so that's all they're going to make from now on. Because the market cannot afford inefficiencies, and anywhere someone is making $0.99 when they could be making $1.00 is an inefficiency that must be corrected.

> Apple hasn't made a really revolutionary product since Jobs died.

It's more about regression for cosmetic reasons then not being revolutionary. There's potential with development of newer hardware and yet they use it to make slimmer devices and with less ports. Smaller motherboard ? Instead of slimming the shell, make it thicker and use the rest for batteries. 50 hour battery laptop, now that's revolutionary.

> I've been wanting a mac laptop the size and weight of a MacBook Air 13" but with a retina display for years

If they'd sold these new models as New Air, everyone would be fine; Air customers would be ecstatic and Pro customers would be interested. But they called them Pro and slapped (raised) Pro prices on them, which is basically trying to sell me shit for chocolate.

It's an utter failure of branding and marketing, which is what Apple is supposed to be the best at.

I'd say the lack of hardware function keys is an utter annoyance for 80% of existing Mac users, maybe 40% like you who can be convinced by the Touchbar provided as a replacement. Remains 40% annoyed users, minimum. Don't forget Macbooks are sold at a prime, so users are mostly people who use it professionnaly, >8 hrs a day, who expect something from it and are experts in using it (even the basic photographer ends up mastering the keyboard shortcuts of Adobe, starting with... the Esc key).

Since the Touchbar may convince noobs like my 15-year-old, provided they're spoiled with laptops no-one can afford, you may end up with a situation where old farts are only 5-10% still cursing at the lack of hardware Esc/Function keys. But that's because of the attrition of professionals, not because you've made a good product.

Face it, the market actively rejects this innovation. A lot of people who wanted to renew held off, and are replacing their Macbook with... nothing. It's a bit like if your boyfriend leaves you, and if he doesn't have anyone else to date. He just leaves you because you're bad, because your prices increased too much, and because your features are missing. I don't even thing Microsoft's innovation plays much of a role in Apple's attrition.

Now let's talk about the missing battery life incidator, the missing battery life, the missing magsafe, the missing USB ports, the missing compatibility with iPhone 7's USB key.

One more thing. The new Macbook isn't on display in stores (in France at least), 6 weeks after the keynote and one week before Christmas. Apple really has a problem with procurement.

You can literally set the Touchbar to just show the function keys.

I keep mine dynamic, have been using the laptop for a month now, and can say there has not been one occasion when the escape key wasn't there when i wanted it.

And having TouchID sensor more than makes up for it.

Of all you criticism not one has been a problem to me except battery life which is quite bad on mine.