Ask HN: How is the status of remote working in Europe? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How is the status of remote working in Europe?

29 pointsbontoJR34 comments

Absolute shit. Its easier to get a contract from a US firm working from europe than it is to actually work remote in europe for a european company.

Besides, the pay is shit. European companies think 40k is a great salary for an engineer. Better rates to be had in murica. much better. 3-4x+ better.

How easy it was to get US clients? In my experience, Americans are afraid of dealing with people from "overseas". I did have a couple of US clients though.

well, its simple.

Step 1: Don't call yourself a freelancer. Freelancers are the idiots who get paid after the fact, can't speak proper english and have to deal with money-conscious clients who think $5000 is a lot of cash. If you do contract work, you are a CONSULTANT. You CONSULT. The word implies you know more about what you're doing than your client. Words are powerful.

Step 2: Have a skillset that is in demand.

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Get Rich

Yes, I'm consulting, for European clients mostly.

(Czech republic) - in my peer-group, fully remote work is rare, but not unheard-off (for past two years I have worked with colleague who was fully remote, even though he lives in the same country, and we are about to hire another one. Both of them were hired as senior engineers)

What is really common, is reasonably generous attitude towards working from home. Few of my colleagues have arrangement with my manager that they can work from home indefinitely and basically come to office only when they feel like it, because of ~1h long commute from one part of the city to the other. Company policy is 1xWFH/week.

(Germany) In smaller companies it's certainly possible to arrange it - not sure how common it is. In larger companies, this is very unusual and usually not even considered, except for contractors.

There are a million of workplace laws and regulations that are hard to apply for someone who's working from home. E.g. I have heard from people working at home that their desk and chair needed to be inspected to make sure it is compliant (ergonomics etc).

Linux software tester reporting in from Eastern EU. I am fully remote and would not have it any other way. My client company (I'm a subcontractor) is located in the same county so it's not like I work overboard. This is pretty standard for some companies, and completely alien to others. Look for the former ones and ask during interviews.

In the UK, I've noticed remote working has become more and more common, particularly in the last 2 or 3 years. Not only are there more distributed companies, but commutes in the London area are quite long as people have to live far out.

So yes, it's happening. I say this as someone who generally prefers to work onsite...

What hourly rate range have you been seeing?

In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out. The socialist mindset created retarded managers. So anything deviating from the standard factory setup is seen as depravity. Europeans don't understand technology. For them software development is like manual labor. Get some monkeys, throw them some peanuts and use a whip to make them do stuff.

Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.

That's weird thing to say, I guess no replies from guys in UK (London & rest of the country). It's similar for Netherlands and I know (from my experience) in Germany (Berlin).

'In Europe software companies are more like factories. You punch in, work like a slave all day, then punch out.' > again not sure which countries you speak about (ukraine or romania lol?), maybe it's like that in some, but some have very relaxed attitude

'Overall, remote working in Europe is mostly done for US companies. EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' > again, there're tons of EU based remote work, and I just won't comment on the rest of this generalisation.

I've got a nice remote offers from Spain and Netherlands as we, despite being in UK. I'm getting them all the time.

So just to top the thing about working like a slave all day... - my EU company gives me remote because I do work better in this mode, - my EU company gives me a lot of benefits that guys in US don't see (despite that average salary I'd say is lower in here), - basically it's yet another EU company that hires me and gives me total freedom because I deliver

i.e. if you're good you will always find a remote job with conditions you want.

btw. your comment shows your ignorance and nothing more (and a lack of ability to produce some facts instead of meaningless offences)

'EU companies are usually mentally disabled.' - seriously? you work for some1 or you're building your own 'empire' with this kind of attitude and beliefs?

Overall, your post is full of bs.

'ukraine or romania lol?' - it's interesting to see that you typed Ukraine and Romania in lowercase while others (Spain, Netherlands, US) in uppercase, but let's skip it for now.

I really wonder what your assumptions about working environments in Ukraine and Romania are based on? Have you ever worked in any of the countries? Do you feel like people there are somehow worse than people in the UK? Or that Ukrainian/Romanian developers are more "slaves" than you?

Thanks

'again not sure which countries you speak about (ukraine or romania lol?), maybe it's like that in some, but some have very relaxed attitude' > I'm talking about Western Europe. Mostly Germany, Netherlands, UK and Scandinavia. I was referring to office jobs, not remote.

Eastern Europe is actually pretty great because it has an American influence. No stupid EU brainwashing. Only capitalism. Also, your tone about Ukraine and Romania is condescending. Not very nice.

'again, there're tons of EU based remote work, and I just won't comment on the rest of this generalisation.' > It's low quality. Basically, remote work in Europe means "Let's find some third-world slaves that will work for cheap.". They offer remote because they don't want to pay the high salaries in their own countries.

I've got a nice remote offers from Spain and Netherlands as we, despite being in UK. I'm getting them all the time.' > I get these offers all the time. And they all offer average salaries. They search in other countries because they are trying to find cheap slaves.

'my EU company gives me a lot of benefits that guys in US don't see (despite that average salary I'd say is lower in here)' > Your mistake was accepting the lower salary. But it's understandable since you don't seem to be familiar with how things actually work.

Just to give you an idea, I work in Eastern Europe. And the equivalent salary in UK to maintain my quality of life would be about 150k GBP. I'm happy that you're happy. But I'm pretty sure you're concentrating too much on the silver lining.

I worked for European companies. And I worked for American companies with branches in Europe. And American companies are simply on another level. They might suck in the US, but they don't when they come to Europe.

What benefits does the EU company give you more beside more free days compared to US ?

I'll just mention one thing, maybe that's not important for you - US maternity law, come on... it's a joke ;) all of this stuff is way in favour in most countries of Europe.

btw. I like my free days, I like a lot the extra ones (not the ones that companies are obligated to) if you work for good company.

time is precious so a lot of companies are very flexible, in here it's nothing new & nothing uncommon to do 4 days instead 5 etc. or change any day with any weekend day if you please.

I think you drank too much of the kool-aid. You're very happy about things that are normal in Europe. And you are willing to be underpaid to get them. You don't have to be. You can get a good salary and the benefits too. It's funny how you're fighting the guys that want this to happen.

> Europeans work like a slave all day

Except in holidays

> The socialist mindset created retarded managers

Not all the retarded managers are socialists, and not all managers are retarded. Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet?

> Europeans don't understand technology

Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet. Congratulations to USA for ranking again in the second place after China.

'Except in holidays' > Nice straw man. All day doesn't mean every day.

'Do you have free universal medical care for all citizens yet?' > Yes, I live in Europe.

'Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet' > You are very good at building these straw men. Not sure what understanding technology has to do with pollution.

> Not a single european country in the list of the five most polluting countries in the planet.

Congratulations for not understanding the concept of "per capita".

Are you talking from experience or just out of your arse? I know plenty of EU software companies and while there is certainly some variation none of them is like the cliché you're painting.

It's like saying every US software company is like 70s / 80s era IBM (which used to be pretty much like what you're describing).

I agree.

Large companies sometimes have regulations around (limited) home working, but those who do it are looked at with suspicion from everyone else and only the very senior seniors dare to use it.

WTF? Admittedly I've only worked in Scandinavia, but that doesn't sound right at all. Every job I've worked at (from small startups to multinational engineering firms) has been extremely flexible when it comes to working hours and taking time off and I've never seen a manager come even halfway close to to being anywhere near as bad as the stories I hear about American managers here on HN.

Sounds pretty accurate for a business-oriented role. Didn't have the same experience in the engineering teams. Maybe I found only shitty companies. Maybe it's just the role itself.

For example, everybody says "there are better companies out there". But all of them seem to be the same. And it's more of a gamble on the position. Find a good team and the company is great. Find a bad team in the same company and the company sucks. Maybe you got lucky and I didn't. Hence the different perspectives.

Obviously all companies are different, and perhaps the best companies in the US treat their best workers better than the best companies in Europe. But equally all the working condition horror stories I've heard from the US completely dwarf anything I've ever seen or heard of in Europe.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you just have a terrible personal experience with shitty jobs.

My current (UK) company is great to work for.

That's anecdotal. My current company is great too. That doesn't mean all the companies in my country are great.

Exactly, it doesn't mean they are all shite either. I'm willing to accept that many are though, but that's no different anywhere you go.

If I was born in Europe, who should I work for ? Should I move to UK, US, Australia ?

Depends on what you want. US usually has the highest $. You can also remote to get as much $ and as few costs.

Iceland

So true

I know several people working remotely for European companies. They do complain that the pay is less, but that's probably not related to being remote.

Unfortunately we're not there yet. It's doable if you negociate it with your local small-midsized company.

Not sure what are you asking. Could you be more precise?

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