Hacker News Reader

> if you're not an idiot ...

I lol'd, but to clarify this very accurate point:

* Be reliable (never, ever go dark)

* Be a nice person (polite and upbeat, even if the client isn't exactly deserving)

* Do quality work, regardless of the circumstances (even if you're over budget)

If you hit those three points, you will perform far better, revenue-wise, than the average contractor - I did it for years while I was getting my product business off the ground.

> Be reliable (never, ever go dark)

+1 to this point. At a previous agency job I found this to be the biggest pain when hiring/dealing with contractors.

As long as they gave decent notice on days off I never complained about their availability.

Dumb question .. so you aren't asking for a job at the agency? a Rather asking to be a subcontractor when they get a gig? A bit confused here.

I've done this professionally for the last 18 months or so and basically how it works is the agency will get in a project, perhaps it's short or long. My contracts range from 3 weeks to 6 months. The agency doesn't want to hire someone on just for this project because maybe they only get a project like this once every 2 years. You get a desk, sometimes a computer, credentials and are basically an employee. You rock up 9-5 like everyone else. At the end of the contract you'll either get extended if they have more work or you'll be onto the next thing. You should be getting paid a bit more for this than if you were an employee because you're often foregoing benefits like sick/annual leave and general job security.

What's your specialty? I can't imagine an agency passing along generic web dev work. It would have to be something they don't have the expertise on hand to deal with, right?

Personally I've done work like this for agencies who focused on design and front-end that needed some complicated back-end functionality implemented for a client and didn't want to hire their own person internally to handle it.

I focus mostly on front-end work with the ability to work on iOS, PHP, Rails and Phoenix projects. A lot of the places I work at get a lot of front-end work in and need an extra developer for a month or two then they like me and keep me around for a bit longer.

This would really depend on the sort of agency and the type of work they're comfortable doing. Many agencies specialise more in "strategic" work, and have in-house resources for that, but when it comes to actual digital "production" work, this is something they might well farm out to contractors.

You'd be surprised. Many agencies don't have any web developers in-house, or have mostly front-end people and are understaffed for significant application-like work.

Interestingly, this has some legal complications where I am from (South Australia). If you tick all the boxes of being an employee then you must be hired as one. To be a contractor you have to prove autonomy separate from the business, eg your own equipment, set your own hours, and not rely solely on the one client.

It is an attempt to stop employers dodging benefits entitlements by hiring their employees as contractors.

This is true in the United States as well, exactly as you describe it.

Similar thing in Victoria too. Larger companies will be a bit more careful and hire you as a casual employee in case they get audited. Some of the smaller companies and agencies don't really care. Sometimes they'll require me to bring in my own tools, which is fine it's all tax deductible. There's probably not a ton of work like this in SA. Maybe some people at Majoran and Hub would need someone short term but I think having so many head offices and dev centres on the east coast a lot of the work would be centered over there.

Definitely, from my experience companies here are more interested in full timers. Also I didn't expect to see Majoran mentioned in a HN comment!

This is also true in the United States. In particular, there was a major class action suit brought against Microsoft in 1996 on behalf of thousands of workers who were classified as contractors for years at a time. [0] As a result, almost all companies now have strict limits on the max contract term, which is often one or two years.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp#Vizcaino_v._Microsof...

in that case you probably also get even more money as a contractor, and you can deduct the cost of your equipment as a business expense.

We have almost the exact same legislation here in the UK, by the name of IR35.

In essence it means that you can't take paid leave or sick days, otherwise it counts as "disguised employment". Another interesting requirement is that you must have at lest one other person in your company who can reasonably stand in for you and perform your work, if needs be.

If caught on the wrong side of the law then you must return the tax you've saved along with paying a fine. Not nice.

Just want to clarify a point - you don't have to employ the person who stands in for you, you just need to be contractually allowed to do so. Otherwise, your client is paying for _you_, not the service you're providing (e.g. [technology] developer).

Generally it's just a matter of how the contract is worded. You need to reserve the sort of rights a business would reserve.

Ah, I didn't realise this. Thank you!

Wow, you just described my side work as a freelance musician.

I make about 10% of my income from playing gigs once or twice a week, and I make maybe 10% of my income doing web dev for small agencies.

The businesses have always seemed very similar to me, with the exception that it's easier to find remote computer work and the budgets with the computer stuff are uniformly more sustainable.

Can you clarify what you mean by "even if you are over budget" ?

What if you estimated all of the features, built them, and then the client comes back with a bunch of new features and changes that would require a new contract. Do you do them for free?

What about ongoing support? My contracts give the client one week to test any features, and once that week has elapsed without any issues, the contract is considered "complete" and they have to pay the other 50%. Would you be for or against that practice?

I guess I am wondering where the balance lies between protecting yourself and protecting your reputation.

Unfortunately, clients (just like all human beings) are squishy and forgetful. Your reputation can get damaged through no fault of your own. When do you decide to let someone go because their expectations don't match the contract they signed? Is the penalty to your reputation so high that it's never worth the time you would save by doing this?

I am genuinely curious to see how other contractors manage this.

If the client is coming back with clearly unscoped changes, it's generally out of the question. Be polite at first and let them know that it's "out of scope" and that you could estimate the time required to do it.

When I said "clearly over budget," I meant in terms of your own estimate. Sometimes feature X takes longer to build out, and there's the inclination to cut corners to get things done so you don't drive your effective hourly/day rate down, assuming that the poor estimate was yours and you'll eat the cost.

But expanding on that, do quality work regardless of the scenario, such as:

* The codebase is already a pile of s* left behind by someone else * They're miserable, complaining, sons a' biches no matter what you do for them A fix could be sloppy and take 1 line of code, or quality and take 10

That kinda stuff.

Mostly this, but don't phone and don't phone again three months later. Might get a bit of attention, but many people hate needless interruptions like that. Send very brief emails, link to a portfolio (no Word or PDFs - link to your site). Don't send a bland Christmas card, but do send an email that's a bit more personal/casual. e,g, "Thanks for working with me this year. Hope you have some time off planned? I'm taking a break between x and y, but if you need a hand after that on any projects, please let me know. I've been working on a couple of interesting things recently (URLs) but I'm available in the new year."

Good idea, but then follow up with a stage II remote round, where you just start finding agencies through the country & beyond. People in your city you should use the more personal touch, but these folks you'll prolly just want to email.

DO visit each of their sites & see what they actually sell/market

DO make 6-8 version of your cover letter to fit different niches, and tweak each one to be a bit more personal before sending out

DO get a decent way to track them like they are customers (ie, a CRM or some good tool) so you remember to stay in touch.

Don't send anything that reads like a mass-mailed spam! Something as simple as "I see you are all in Boulder. My Dad went to UC" may sound a little corny but they need to see they aren't getting a form letter, and they need a way to remember you out of the crowd.

It is a lot of work, but over time it pays off.

This is really good advice. A lot of Agency hire freelancers when they get an overflow of projects. It is easier for them vs. having to hire captive employees and then potentially have to let them go if the projects don't last long-term.

Main downside is you will generally make less going through an Agency, but it is a great for new freelancers who are trying to fill up their pipeline.

And, we re-hire freelancers who delivered in the past, as well as recommending you to our friends when we want to look useful to them.

> Go to google, type in "web agencies [yourLocalCity]"

Beware that if you type that you might end up finding web dev work though. It could be an unpleasant surprise :)

In addition, sometimes agencies aren't interested in taking smaller clients/projects. You can offer them a commission (e.g. 10%) to refer those to you.