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Comment by tribaal | Hacker News Reader

To clarify on top of Klathmon's point: this actually happens in Switzerland, it's not just a theoretical argument.

Actually, the government is required to have some people watching the counting (specific rules vary on a per-canton basis). Some states select random citizens for that (similar to jury duty in the US - you get fined if you don't show up, but get paid for your time). Other states have a pool of people they choose from randomly (you volunteer for the pool).

EDIT: Furthermore, Swiss people vote in their community. It's not like you need to go out of your way to watch the counting - it happens in your town hall or (sometimes) the school. It always happens on Sundays (which is a required day off in Switzerland except in some rare cases).

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That's nice to know!

If you don't mind me asking, how does Switzerland handle those which are required to work on election days?

That's one of the ugliest parts of the US election system to me, is the fact that many people need to fit the election around their work schedule, and I know of at least 3 people that couldn't get time to vote this year, and my state makes it so you basically need to be actively deployed in the military, or be hospitalized to get an absentee ballot.

Like I added in my edit, there is almost no such case: Sundays are a mandatory day off for most. That means you can't go shopping on a Sunday, except in very few shops (train station shops have exceptions). Doctors, pharmacies and most other emergency things operate on a reduced schedule.

I'm not certain what would happen if say a nurse working a shift in an ICU was selected. I'm pretty sure it's either announced early enough that the hospital would have to switch shiftees or they would be given a pass for free. I suspect a person working in a train station shop on a Sunday would tell their boss, and would simply be shifted to another time (it's not like the boss or the employee can do anything about it - it's law).

EDIT: to clarify once again - I'm pretty sure it does happen, but the case is probably rare enough for it not to matter too much. The rule works for a good 90% of cases, exceptions can certainly be done on a case-by-case basis at community level.

In Spain, where the system is similar to what you described (staff for the day is chosen at random from all citizens in that voting district, and similar to jury duty), some professionals (doctors, nurses, air controllers, etc.) can decline the request if they will be on watch, and there are assigned replacements for them.

A non-critical worker cannot refuse but:

a) Chosen citizens are paid, even if not much (60€ I think).

b) Chosen citizens have the following Monday morning free, should they need to travel back to their job site, etc.

c) Chosen citizens have strong legal protections should their boss try anything.

In practice, when an employee is chosen for election duty the boss just deals with it as best as they can, since it's a case where judges and police are super strict: messing with election duty will get you heavy fines and/or jail time. So no-one is going to fire you or retaliate if you are assigned election duty.

In my current commune of residence, I have been (s)"elected" for that task during a couple of years and:

- I never had to show up (there seem to be enough people volunteering...). - If you have good reasons, you can contest the election.

(IIRC, formally, I've been elected to that task... but I have no idea who did elect me...).

Switzerland has easy mail voting for everybody. I have never once in my live voted by going somewhere.

Sure, you don't have to. But you can (and many people do).

EDIT: also, the mail goes to one of these places where people are standing around watching the people counting (your community's townhall, usually)

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