Comment by ocean86 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ocean86 | Hacker News Reader

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Thanks for saying these! As a Chinese as well, I agrees with you with these facts, they makes China less favorable to many of us. For some of your points, I'd share some different interpretations.

1. Yes - Housing is a problem. I think it is a salary problem. As tech corps in US earns money from the whole world, most Chinese tech corps can only attract Chinese customers. So the value generated from a same piece of code, is better in US. This makes US engineers' salary and status relatively higher in the society than those in China.

2. Yes - people are working 996. But I won't blame the law. I'd blame the culture, or the competitive nature of Chinese tech industry. Union doesn't do anything in China, but labour law does. It is written in favor of workers and executed properly, ask any entrepreneur in China. The problem is, I never seen anyone sued their employer. And there are a damn lot of people that actually working 996 voluntarily without asking by their boss, making the normal ones less competitive if they don't do this.

3. No, I don't agree here. - In tech companies of both countries, I found no difference, relationship does not matter that much even Chinese employees do have a closer personal relationship than US employees. And in other industries like finance, there are no difference either, b/c both countries are 'relation-oriented' in these industries.

4. Yes - I would not say its cruel tho. India, Korea, Singapore are all like this. Its just very competitive due to the limited educational resource and the amount of people who wants to use it. But yea I wouldn't send my child there (If I have one).

5. Pollutions - Sad, Beijing is not a human-habitable place anymore... Shanghai is still okay.

Again, I think the facts you provided are main reasons that stop people going back. Those in the article are slightly wrong(Github, VPN .etc) or not important(foreign business entry barrier) for individuals like me.

As a foreigner who lives in Shanghai for almost 8 years, the list would be a bit different:

1) pollution - Since the Disneyland has opened, things are improved. But above the regular days, it is depressing when finally the weekend came and you can't leave the 4 walls.

2) overpopulation - I don't mean the large population, but the overpopulation. There is no space for cars, yet everybody is buying, sometimes a two lane road becomes barely one, because one lane is completely blocked by parking cars and bikes going randomly. Parks are small and spare in the city. There is barely playground for children only expensive indoor ones.

3) People.. I know I know, but it drives me mad, you can only queue up like once in a year when nobody will come to the front to you. I can't count how many times I've seen that cars just blocking the ambulance in rush for no reason. When you stop with your car because the road is blocked, it's guaranteed sby from the back will try to overtake you either from left or right. My friend had a light accident with a motorcyclist (50%-50%), he brought him the hospital and paid everything. Few months later he was dragged to the court and was charged for 28K RMB (~$4K) (including the bills he paid in the hospital, fortunately he kept the cc receipts, the repair of the bike cost like a new one etc. even if it is mostly paid by the insurance, very depressing to see this amount of fraud). And so on.. Of course you can meet nice and good people, but still the daily routine will be different (also gave up counting how many times i was almost hit by a car or motor).

4) The first green is like 4 hours driving. And not easy drive but bloody fight. Have to be fully alert, people even overtake you on the shoulder of the road + I can't recall I ever could drive without seeing accidents, see barrels or other things on the road.

5) internet - after 7-8pm it is basically cut, so overloaded, no website loads that is not hosted in the country. You have to use some kind of vpn for everything! ... your gray hair is granted. No form of video-chat works beside wechat. Skype though exists, in the current year, was really painful communicating with my parents.. as my experience goes only works during working hours or on mobile net. In this year when i go home, I started to consider it as an offline zone.

.. sorry to be honest, no pun intended. It is how it is (My wife is Chinese so Im halfway there also :)... and things are improving with time, just way too slowly, Except 2. and 4. that can't be really fixed. (can't imagine anytime soon that it will be a dream destination..)

3. I disagree. I've been working in the tech industry (in the U.S) for over 8 years now. Relationship with the manager absolutely matters as far as being paid more and promotion. That's my experience in all 4 tech companies I've worked at. Though there are props for merit, but at the end of the day, and especially at the bigger firms, it's your relationship with higher ups that gets you there.

> 4. ... limited educational resource and the amount of people who wants to use it

Is this really the case? I can't imagine a country having to limit educating students because of lack of resources. I hope they're not doing it artificially just to have a gradient.

> I can't imagine a country having to limit educating students because of lack of resources. I hope they're not doing it artificially just to have a gradient

What I've heard about India is that there are a few (15, IIRC) prestigious Engineering colleges and everyone wants to go there. So high school students have to outdo each other to get a place, meaning a lot of study & completion. The gradient is not intentional

Maybe my word choice is wrong. 'Limited' here does not mean someone is limiting the resource. It means the scarcity. In another way, it is limited by nature. Like how it is used the definition of Economic Problem: "How do we satisfy unlimited wants with limited resources?" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_problem)

Back to your question, China is not limiting education. But the education is limited by the nature of a lack of resources problem. Lets say we are in a university called US. We have 10 students and 10 Profs in US. Then every student could easily get into the course they want. An entry test might be placed only to make sure the student has knowledge required for this course. But in another university called China, they have 20 students but only 5 Profs. So a entry test is placed on those 20 to select the best 5 students for classes. So these 20 students need to study damn hard for the chance to get into the course they want. For here, prof is a 'limited resource.'

It's not really much different from the US. There are a few elite universities that have very competitive admissions and then a bunch of second-rate local universities (although the elite universities in China are about the same level as second-rate universities in the US). The problem is that university admissions in China is decided entirely based on a single test. You basically get one shot. If you don't do well, that's it for you (unless you have rich parents that can send you to the US to study).

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