Hacker News Reader

Comment by erikpukinskis | Hacker News Reader

I find this headphone war discussion a bit boring. The AirPods are much more interesting as Apple's first foray into augmented reality.

If they add positioning, this product becomes Magic Leap without the visuals. I don't think they see this as a music device, they see it as a new platform for audio. Interesting things start happening when people start leaving one or both in their ears all day. Arrival times in your ear at the bus stop. Ask Siri for a price check while at the store, etc.

A cable to your phone makes the earbuds hard to forget. This makes it easy, but the design details have to be right for you to truly forget they are in.

I know "forget they're in" doesn't sound like a groundbreaking feature, because it's not connected to any obvious technical challenge, but I think if they succeed at that it would in fact put these in a new category.

Positional audio would seal the deal. You can walk around your kitchen and it would feel like your invisible conversation partner was in the room with you.

View on HN

But what about the possibility of losing the earpieces? They don't have a cable and don't secure into your ear like a hearing aid or even a normal bluetooth device. If they are so comfortable to the point of the user "forgetting they are there" the rate at which people will lose these things might be huge.

They don't dangle from a cable when falling like normal headphones or Bluetooth headphones that have a cable between each earpiece. Since it's also so comfortable, the user might not even notice they lost an earpiece immediately if they are not listening to anything. (which will specially happen if the user has incentives to use it day long).

And more annoyingly, you will most likely lose just one of the pair. Will you be able to buy just one eapiece and pair it alongside the old pairless earpiece? I don't think so...

edit: fixed wording as eric_h pointed out

I would imagine that the cable itself contributes more to the headphone falling out than the weight of the headphone itself.

Also, I imagine you mean "likely lose just one of the pair", as losing one pair means losing both of them (not intended as a dig, just helping to clarify; your intentions seemed clear)

In retrospect the fact that the cable is responsible for making headphones fall out makes so much sense, and I've even experienced it while running, but I hadn't thought of it. Thank you!

I don't think I'm alone in that though, which is great for Apple: if they're working better than expected, then consumers will love it. Expectations are everything.

The only reason my headphones ever "fall out" is because something catches the cable.

earbuds fall out all the time for me because generic earbuds are not shaped to fit everyone. it happens most often when i'm walking.

for me, it's a bit of column and a bit of column b

That's the strange thing about these.

Why didn't Apple allow for custom earbuds e.g. Comply or provide some way to modify the physical design to accomodate people with different ears.

customization has never been a huge idea within Apple.

I imagine the tech will get licensed at some point

You can rest assured that there will be an aftermarket of artisinally crafted earpods, hand carved and remolded to fit into your laser scanned ear canals.

Or slightly more low tech - an audiologist making a mold using putty:

https://nobleaudio.com/en/shop/custom/

https://nobleaudio.com/en/support/impressions-instructions/

As a musician who uses in-ear-monitors weekly, I very much wish I had custom molded ones.

It's not a hipster 'artisinal' thing as much as they ostensibly work better, and they aren't "hand carved"... there are refined process for this.

But they are supposed to be much more comfortable and sound better. I can't comment becasue I don't play enough (or make enough playing) to justify spending $500-800 on them.

Seems like the pinna+upper ear-canal could be moulded very easily with dental alginate? The issue would probably be that you'd need to insert some form of tethered plug to stop the alginate going in too far, perhaps a bead on nylon thread. Then it's just a hack job to pair it with the earphone. (Or you could produce a mould, etc.)

As far as I know, there is an existing process that can do this fine.

And I believe (but am not sure) that there are existing bluetooth solutions, though I couldn't imagine using those in a professional music monitoring context.

So I can easily imagine that there will be custom refitting of these devices. However, custom molds often cost $200-300 (or more) by themselves, plus the drivers, so not in my proce range.

I do use my "cheap" (Shure se215 ~$100) wired IEMs with my iphone now when I want more isolation than open-backed earbuds like ones that came with my phone. They are great for mowing the lawn.

But maybe the airpods are more reliant on the ambient sound, so I dunno if there is much to gain from custom molds.

A large part of the reason they fall out is that the weight of the cable pulls them out. It's not 100% of the cause but it's definitely a major factor.

Citation needed -- the original Apple bluetooth headset for the iPhone fell out of my ears all the time.

>Citation needed

Physics?

It can be quite common within publications in the Physics community to also have citations.

    >But what about the possibility of losing the earpieces?

It's interesting to see how many people seem want to stop the conversation at "you're bound to lose one so what's the point."

10-15 years ago people the argument could have been made about cell phones, "why carry a phone you're bound to leave at a restaurant or on a train..."

If the AirPods or wireless mini computers in your ears become so integrated into our day to day lives one falling out will become obvious pretty quick. And the price will drop, maybe not for the Apple versions, but what about Google Now in $40 wireless earbuds in two or three years?

Ultimately that's what is going to limit the success of this product. It's not just one issue, you also now suddenly have to manage 3 pools of battery for a single device with that unnecessary dental floss container thing. I don't think this is good design, at least not in the function over form sense. If apple wasn't so stubborn they could just have linked both earpieces with a cable and a small battery in the middle eliminating both, the extra battery pool and "losability" problems. The price could also come down since there is no need for the dental floss device.

I don't want more batteries and dongles to carry around. A phone and a headphone are already cumbersome in my pocket.

Eventually we will have batteries powerful enough to eliminate the need for that dental floss thing, and the industry will finally standardize induction charging making charging the earpieces anywhere a reality.. but until then, apple is just ahead of the time.

But in a bad sense. Instead, they could just have made a product that is more realistic with the technology we have.

"Ultimately that's what is going to limit the success of this product." in reference to losability due to lack of dental floss between the earbuds

I will politely disagree. If the automation/augmentation/functionality provided is good enough then losability is a non-factor. If the capabilities afforded by the wireless W1 chips don't live up to the hype then dental floss ain't going to save them.

> 10-15 years ago people the argument could have been made about cell phones, "why carry a phone you're bound to leave at a restaurant or on a train..."

Could. But it wasn't because they were big and exciting so you would look pretty stupid saying that.

Losing those cigarette buts though is not a big problem. I have some Plactronics for some years now and there is a reason why they still hang at your neck.

But I guess, people who jump on that right now will have no problem spending that money again and again and...

It's possible we'll stop buying earbuds in pairs, and start buying them in ten packs. Some for your pocket, in your desk at work, at home, spares in the car... maybe some genius will figure out a design that fits in either ear, and uses compass measurements with the other bud to figure out whether it's in the left or right ear.

I assumed that was a large part of Apple's idea here. And as it's only an accessory the cost won't get factored in to people's phone purchasing decision.

>Since it's also so comfortable, the user might not even notice they lost an earpiece immediately if they are not listening to anything.

Is it possible Apple could implement some sort of loss alert mechanism for this?

Ideally each earpiece would have a low-power heartbeat even when in your pocket to continually verify they haven't been lost.

Good idea. The iPhone could vibrate/ring when it detects an earpiece is getting out of range (ie. fell behind when walking). Or the one earpiece left in your ear could tell you "you lost the other one" :)

It makes me chuckle to envision an earpiece screaming a high pitched whine as it falls to the ground.

Just partner with Disney and give it a legit R2-D2 scream.

They also have, as far as I'm aware, a pretty lousy battery life. They simply cannot be left in the ear all day; they'll need to be charged a couple times during the day.

That's what's going to hold up adoption. If we can't get a days usage out of it then many will hack together a wired solution, even if it's a battery on the other end.

Western women are comfortable clipping far more expensive diamonds, pearls, and gold to their ears. Sometimes they fall off and you look for them. Sometimes you lose one. This is sad. Life goes on.

(Apple has already said there will be a way to replace a lost single unit.)

This analogy is pretty bad because most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses. I don't think losing them is going to be the main problem of the airpods though. I think they're too early for their time but have potential in the future.

“This analogy is pretty bad because most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses”

Have you never seen anyone jogging or on a train or a bus?

I'm referring to more expensive earrings and necklaces that are used for parties and special occasions. Most people don't wear $600 earrings while going on a jog. The ones who wear expensive earrings to work generally don't have a commute on a crowded bus or train either. There are plenty of exceptions though.

I've seen plenty of men with the stud earrings that are probably upwards of $400 that go jogging and do everything as normal but I've never heard of those falling off.

> most people who clip expensive accessories to their ears don't usually go jogging or commuting through very crowded trains/buses

Get on any rush hour subway in NYC and see how very wrong you are.

Do people really wearing expensive jewelry on the crowded trains? If so I stand corrected. However, I'm not talking about studs or chains that don't fall off easily. I'm referring to dangling earrings that I consider "dress-up" accessories. And I know there are people, but I said generally don't.

Earrings need to either fail structurally or tear through your earlobe to be lost. Apple AirPods don't need to do either, they can just fall out.

You're not wrong in general, but there are still plenty of men and women who wear clip-on earrings.

That’s the genius of the tic-tac case they come in.

My particular form of obsessive-compulsive behavior revolves around finding and losing things. One of my big life lessons is that things don't get lost when you have a place for them — the keys go here, the wallet goes here, the phone goes here, they never get lost.

If the Airpods never needed to be charged, or could charge wirelessly by being dropped on a magnetic pad or something, I fully expect that they would get lost all the time. But the tic-tac case is an integral accessory — when you're wearing Airpods, the case is in your pocket, and when you're not wearing Airpods, the the Airpods are in the case.

(I was sad when Apple stopped including docks with iPhones, those solved a problem that most people don't realize they have)

I think the number of people who lose these things will be surprisingly low.

For me the concern would be one of the earpieces falling out without me noticing. Having a place for them doesn't do any good in that scenario.

Pretty sure this problem is completely overblown and won't be a real issue in practice.

I don't think they see this as a music device either. I think they see it as a way of making money from their decision to remove the audio jack from the phone.

That said, you're spot on with your forecasts of how great this could be, the AR of audio is potentially awesome.

I'm very interested in buying these and I have a headphone jack so I don't think it's purely a money thing, but obviously 159$ is quite expense (though so are most bluetooth earbuds that are likely not as nice as these in some ways)

But they might be nicer in other ways.

That's such a cynical, boring view. I'm sorry, but it is.

You really think that Apple removed the headphone jack to make a bit more cash? Seriously? Hand-on-heart honestly, you think that's why? Come on.

I think it's because they love cool new things. Thank fk they do because, frankly, nobody else seems to be doing anything interesting. I know, I know, they're not perfect. AirPods are late. They're expensive. I know.

But I guarantee you that, come 2020, you will be hard pushed to find a set of wired headphones that resemble those we wear today. I would bet my current net worth on it†. The time has come to do new things with headphones. You want to call them "magical"? Maybe not. But a tiny thing that sits in my ear, Star Trek style, that I can tap and talk to Siri, that detects when I'm talking, that mutes itself, that swaps between paired devices seamlessly, that charges in a little tic-tac case, that's cool. That's what the world wants. It's certainly what I want.

But hey, I guess we can just assume they're trying to scrape a few more dollars out of everyone. Yep, that's probably what this is about.

(†Not currently all that much, but hey.)

It can be both; one good reason to make something cool is to make money from it.

There is nothing wrong with cynical view. I have zero problems with bluetooth speakers and earbuds... yet many people find them irritating to pair and not very user friendly.

Siri sucks. Once you've spoken to Google via "Ok Google" you quickly realize how bad Siri is.

The world doesn't need Airpods. I get that you want them, but the overwhelming majority in the _world_ can not afford Airpod. I would bet that sales of Airpods will be as transparent as the iWatch... as in completely opaque.

Anyone who can afford an iPhone can afford AirPods.

Coincidentally the Apple Watch is the best selling and most profitable Smart Watch on sale now.

And it overtook all other regular watchmakers, except for Rolex, in sales: http://wornandwound.com/apple-second-rolex-worldwide-sales-m...

Apple doesn't make products for "the world", they make products for well-off people who have the cash to spend. "The World" still uses sub-$100 Android phones or dumbphones and will do so for the foreseeable future.

Counter: do you think if removing the headphone jack made the product better but net cost Apple money do you think they would have done it? Of course not. It can be both.

They would have just put the price up. Ref: MacBook Pro Late 2016.

    But I guarantee you that, come 2020, you will be hard pushed to find a set of wired headphones that resemble those we wear today.

Yup, commenting just in case I really want to see if this prediction pans out in only three years: wired earbuds will no longer be sold. Oh! You said, "found". Oh, OK, "found"

I'm biased. When I want to put on earphones, I want to hear, not be heard. That's the primary function. Not to be some bizarre com. THESE Airbuds are totally useless to me, even if I have a device that supports them. Can I take them running, or cycling? That's a good majority of my "not sleeping, not working" time. I don't need another attempt at augmented reality, I need to remember I used to go to places to talk to people, not manipulate a screen, or talk to a computer assistant.

I remember when Bluetooth headsets came out. They were decidedly not cool. Like, "look at the crazy person talking to themself while walking" not cool.

    (†Not currently all that much, but hey.)

It's more than me. I'm taking the bet.

Oh, I still fully expect to be wearing the updated version of my Audio Technica ATH-M50s in 2020. When I'm sitting at home, listening to music.

But when I'm out and about, cycling to work, listening to a podcast on the train, at work on a conference call? The AirPods are going to be amazing for that sort of thing. That's what I mean by "hard pushed to find a set of wired headphones that resemble those we wear today".

I wasn't clear in my frothing rage, for which I apologise. ;-)

> You really think that Apple removed the headphone jack to make a bit more cash? Seriously? Hand-on-heart honestly, you think that's why? Come on.

Yes.

And honestly, if you think a big company like Apple does anything without the motivation of making money, then frankly you're being starry-eyed and naive.

Maybe if they were a little start-up or something, sure, I could buy that argument. But yes, I entirely, whole-heartedly believe that Apple is doing this for money. If not, why not release the air pods first, then release a few generations of iPhones with audio jacks? It's not like having that little hole in the bottom of a phone would stop Apple from generating more "magical" technology.

I don't doubt Apple thinks that air pods are cool, but come on, seriously.

Of course apple is motivated by making money, but their profits come mostly from selling new devices, not pissing off existing customers by building features to squeeze cash out of existing customers.

So do you really think they will jeopardize sales of their most profitable iphone devices to squeeze some extra cash from a niche earpod device?

Apple's justification for removing the headphone jack is that it helps make the iPhone 7 water resistant and thinner (so increases the premium feel). Both of these features add value so potentially raise the selling price. The lack of headphone jack makes a wireless audio solution necessary. Apple have attempted to turn this weakness into a strength with their new class of headphones (earbuds). Apple may seek to make these distinctive earbuds fashionable like the original white earphones of the iPod. Apply must surely have calculated that the additional profit from customers that gain value from the iPhone 7 plus earbuds outweighs lost profit from irate former customers otherwise their behaviour is irrational.

Your analysis is basically correct, but it should also include a time dimension. Apple likely has a version of the iPhone in development 1-3 generations out that absolutely will not have space for a wired headphone jack. They probably have also reasoned that future AR capability will require wireless to be usable. Apple has in the past reasoned that kickstarting an ecosystem of accessories and consumer behaviors earlier than they technically need to has long term benefits to the sale of future devices.

Actually the iphone 7 is such a device. The space previously taken up by the jack is now used for the taptic engine under the capacitive home button.

Also water proofing.

The iPhone 7 does take advantage of the saved space. I was envisioning very thin, by today's standards, devices, or eventually full AR, where maintaining a wired connection to the main device would be impossible or extremely cumbersome.

No one I know uses Siri, by the way. I've literally never heard anyone in the office ask Siri a question. Never heard it in public, either. It's not really a thing outside of the tech bubble, I reckon.

I'm positive most people will still be using cheap wired headphones 3 years from now. If you're willing to lay money on it, I'll take any bet you offer.

They should. She's okay.

Today:

- "Call John Smith on speaker"

- "What's 110 pounds in kilograms?"

Both simple, granted, but both got me what I wanted much quicker than I could have done manually.

I never use Siri in public because it's weird being overheard. But I often use it in private.

I'm not a morning person so I usually have 6 alarms on my phone. So every morning I ask my Siri to "turn off all the alarms" before I jump on my shower.

There is like 4-5 others simple interactions like that that I do in private every day and it's totally worthwhile.

Fun fact, siri happily does this when the phone is unlocked so you can happily screw with someone who has M-F alarms set up and doesn't usually turn them off.

"Hey siri, delete all my alarms"

"Hey Siri, remind me to call Grandma when I get home" (while driving and I remembered something I need to speak to her about)

A simple press of a button on my BT headset (Sony btw, not Apple) and "Call my wife" is a lot easier in the winter than digging out my phone, removing my glove for TouchID and browsing to my wife's contact in the phone app.

A quick shout of "Hey Siri, set timer for 12 minutes" while cooking is faster than fiddling with the kitchen timer - which I had lost. Again.

Also "What's the weather like tomorrow morning" when I come home to see if I need to plug in my car heater for the night or not.

There are just some things that are faster spoken to a digital assistant (Siri, Cortana or Google Assistant) than done by tapping on a screen.

On the other hand, tapping the screen is a lot more appropriate in public than asking "Navigate to my proctologist appointment" :P

> Ask Siri for a price check while at the store, etc

And Siri will just open the Wikipedia entry for "price" :)

Jokes aside, Siri has fallen really, really far behind Google Now. It's jokingly bad at even the most mundane tasks.

Both suck for certain things. The things Siri knows how to answer, she does so really fast and accurately. And if she doesn't know something, the fallback is a search engine.

The best thing about Google Assistant (not Google Now) is the context sensitivity. You can ask "how tall is Tom Cruise", get an answer and then ask "how old is he" and Assistant will pick up who you're talking about. Siri will just get completely baffled.

Forget that they are in?! For my particular shape of ears their hard shell design does not work at all. Every time I have to wear apple earbuds because I cannot find my day to day earbuds, I want to rip them out immediately, and my ears hurt after few minutes of using them.

Unless the came up with better design there is no way I am forgetting I am wearing apple earbuds.

My problem with apple headphones is that my ear holes are apparently different sizes. The right ear is always fine and the left is always less comfortable (if only just). I switched to over the ear bluetooth headphones a while ago and haven't looked back.

Edit: I should add that with in-ear headphones, I was always able to get a good fit by using the one-step smaller rubber ends for the left ear and the default one for the right ear. Never had a problem that way. Still, I prefer over the ear these days, and they also double as earmuffs in the winter time!

I have this problem too, but I love the compactness of earbuds, especially with Bluetooth. Whatever are my earbuds of the day, I order complyfoam tips for them (not affiliated, just love their product).

I hear you (my wife has a similar problem). The sad answer is that Apple and others don't care for your business. If Airpods work well for the majority of potential customers, that's good business for them. Products don't need to be 100% accessible to be profitable, and while Apple software has been better than many in this department, on a new hardware product/platform such as this, your concerns probably fall quite low down the priority order.

I have to echo what others are saying. I don't see how you could possibly forget they're in. I've had issues with every Apple earbud design falling out when I lean over or even just move the wrong way. I'd be constantly worried these would fall out and be damaged. If anything, I'd be constantly reminded I'm wearing them.

Peoples' ears are all different. Apple's earbuds aren't comfortable for me, but they're the first choice for many people that I know. I can easily believe that the AirPods will be so comfortable that some subset of the population will forget they're in.

They don't work for either of us and yet Apple wants to force us into using them

I'm sorry, what? They want to... force you to spend $160? Huh?

They'd love to! They just can't, yet

How are they forcing you to do anything?

They've also removed the headphone jack from the newest model iPhone. You can get an adapter that adds it back, but obviously this is fairly inconvenient. Apple's counting on this to get people to toss their old earbuds/headphones. Maybe force is too strong, but it certainly seems physically connected audio devices are now deprecated

Luckily Apple don't have a monopoly on wireless headphones?

You can use some plain old bluetooth headsets like most people have been for years.

If you really dislike wireless for some reason, you can also get lighting earbuds (I think the iPhone 7 actually includes some).

Finally, if you like all these ideas so much, you can avoid purchasing the product you dislike. It's not like they're forcing this onto existing clients by disabling the existing 3.5mm jack.

Or use the included lightning -> 3.5 mm adapter.

>Maybe force is too strong, but it certainly seems physically connected audio devices are now deprecated

Well yeah, they sort of are. The future is wireless, there's really no denying that at this point.

Apple sells wired headphones for the lightning port. I'm personally not interested in upgrading because I don't want to use their headphones or get a lightning port adapter just for the phone. You're not forced to use the AirPods, but you are forced to use the lightning port (bleh) or bluetooth (meh).

The lightning port adapter comes with the phone.

There's no such thing as comfortable earbuds.

You wear them, they ache until your ears adjust, then it's second nature.

Assuming you wear them more than 10 minutes at a time.

I can't be the only one who used those garbage earbuds included with the game boy for years afterwards.

Until looking just now, I thought headphones were either "earbuds" or the full headphones. Earbuds are the kind Apple sells, while "in-ear" headphones are the ones I find comfortable for hours at a time. The cheap kind I like now are Skullcandy's Ink'd 2 which have a silicone ear-tip. I think I just lucked out in getting an ear-tip that's finally the right size. If you haven't tried in-ear headphones yet, I definitely recommend trying some out - maybe you'll find a pair that works for you.

I'm not clear what you are saying. It seems you are defining "in-ear" headphones as ones that are comfortable for your particular ears, and "eaebuds" as those that are not comfortable for you.

I think the distinction is the ones with the squishy tip that mould to your ear cavity (so there are no gaps), versus the ones that are mostly hard and sit relatively loosely

Positional audio also opens a world of options for blind people. Microsoft Guide Dogs is working on this very thing. http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/6/7164623/microsoft-3d-sound...

Apple isn't going to be the first company that comes out with audio augmented reality or any new technology, really. Apple doesn't invent new product categories, and never really has. They wait for someone else to come out with an early, terrible version of something, see if there's a market for it, and then come out with a new take on it that doesn't suck.

Where is the augmented reality device they're going to be targeting with this?

If anything you'll see them take on something like google cardboard or oculus directly before they do something really left field with headphones. But even that is a couple years away.

This is my view on this as well. I don't really see Apple opening up into this space unless there's an experience to be had from it. Apple likes to take lackluster experiences that end-users "just deal with" and make them into something excellent. They like to use the word "magical" but I think that's a bit overboard.

Just look at any product in their history - they took music players that were fine but bulky and time-consuming to use and turned them into a single intuitive device that could fit in your pocket, carry your entire library, and sync to the computer without any user intervention. I know a lot of tech people are annoyed with iTunes and want to be able to manually drag and drop the files that they want, but, for the non-tech user, iTunes (which already had all their music organized) would just let them sync their music by plugging in without any intervention at all. Apple may have made an assumption for the masses by assuming everyone's music was organized on the computer they were syncing from (and in iTunes, no less), but, when it worked, it was amazing from an experience standpoint.

That's what these headphones are. Just think about the list of things that suck about headphones in a perfect world - cables and wires suck on anything, wireless is more convenient in every case, pairing bluetooth headphones sucks when they get disconnected, the batteries on wireless headphones suck. These are their answer to those complaints - headphones that last much longer than others with a charger that is also a case that syncs to all your devices and intelligently plays wherever from whatever device you're using. Whether they succeed is another story, but the explanation for this product is there.

Hololens, Google glasses, Couple of other uber-successful kickstarters[1] fully fit the bill of half-baked products with middling success that Apple can now supercharge. AirPods definitely seem like the start of an augmented reality strategy. Couple of different rumours indicate this [2][3]

[1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vue/vue-your-everyday-s...

[2] http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/16/apple-augmented-reality-...

[3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-14/apple-sai...

Except this comes back to same problem most things do these days: battery life. You're going to need to return these to their case every few hours, so no one is going to wear them uninterrupted for a day.

This should be the top answer. The product is simply not ready - as evidenced by a two month delay.

Is the two month delay evidence that the product is not ready now, or is it evidence that it was not ready two months ago?

(This is a rhetorical question. You don't have to answer, because the answer is self-evident.)

I wonder- if these things do enough processing, would they get hot?

Having watched the industry for 25 odd years, it just feels like the tech is not there yet. The short battery life, the less than stellar looks (cigarette butt ears) and whatnot.

Two extra months isn't going to fix that IMHO. If you are struggling to get a minimum viable product, it's worrisome.

Who knows though, maybe the problems they had were in the actual manufacturing of them.

That's five hours of continuous audio. OP is talking about a world where you leave them in all day and get periodic audio. Not everyone listens to music 24/7.

Do we know the battery drain relates to playing audio and not maintaining a bluetooth connection? The battery drain would certainly not be zero.

check out how bluetooth LTE works, I think you'd be surprised at how little it can consume in a passive state

>Not everyone listens to music 24/7

Nobody listens to music 24/7 ...

I had a pair of Sony HBH-IS800 and I gave up on them after a week. Apple's product has the same drawbacks (charging, troubleshooting, ease of misplacing, price).

This product category is not worth the hassle for the average user. Very few people will buy a second pair of wireless earbuds. Not enough to warrant building all the features you mention.

I bought a pair of reasonable quality Bluetooth headphones for running two years ago. Since the first time I used them, I haven't used any of my old normal ones again. The convenience and ease with which they're always in, even if not always on has just blown away the fact they're not particularly high quality. I plug them in at night when I plug my phone in. Yet to misplace them.

Everyone's different. For me, and possibly most people, buying wireless earbuds just taught me I care more about phone earbuds in theory than in practice. In practice, it isn't actually worth it for me to worry about whether they are paired, charged, and not misplaced. Life is less hassle with boring $15 earbuds.

    > and possibly most people

This is where you and Apple disagree, and Apple's record here is pretty good.

Especially from 1997 to 2011.

I have been using Sony MDR-XB80BS for a few weeks now and they are utterly flawless for me. They can't fall out. They are pretty low profile since they hide behind your ear. Long battery life. Water resistant. No dropouts and amazing sound. I am really impressed by these headphones.

They have had wireless buds before amd the features you drscribe would be cool to try even eithout airpods. Airpods don't enable those features.

I don't think so. These are my personal reasons:

1. I would hate to talk to a person with those things in their ears.

2. I use my bluetooth headphones the same way I use my wired headphones.

3. I don't feel comfortable talking out loud to nobody in public. It doesn't feel right to talk the phone, I will probably never talk to the air. I'm not a self conscious person, but I care if people think I'm crazy.

Regarding #1, I don't mind talking to someone using ONE earphone, because I can get visual cues about the attention in our conversation.

I regularly use the 'one side' earphones for a while now and people are initially a bit setback but realize quickly that I am fully focused on the conversation and move along with it.

#3 feels analogous to saying: "I would never walk down the street reading a book without looking where i was going." (or something similar) Makes sense until everyone has a smartphone and then this: http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructur...

I remember people saying #3 about mobile phones. And thinking it was odd myself the first time I heard someone near me talking, turned round and there was only one person there. Bluetooth earpieces for calls are already fairly well accepted.

I think we're already past the point of that being a barrier.

These things are probably the (nearish) future. I thought the Moto Hint was great a year or so ago and with Apple stepping into the market it should encourage the competition.

Exactly. Device that will whisper important things into your ear is more elegant solution that weird looking glasses with camera. For now at least. I think they will try to push it as kinda lifestyle or fashion accessory and make wearing one piece as natural as wearing watch or jewellery.

AirPods are also weird looking: https://www.cnet.com/products/apple-airpods/preview/

Leaving them in your ears all day might not be a good idea from health and hygiene perspective.

I wonder if there's any long term issues with bone conducting headphones. As AR goes, not having noise isolation is a benefit.

I don't see how heavier than normal, wireless earbuds would be any easier to forget than normal earbuds.

I don't have a problem with a cable. I actually don't understand why people would want to replace a cheap, robust, simple technology like a cable with non-replaceable batteries and signal-degrading wireless.

Also I don't need my phone to talk at me all day.

But, "courage".

I'm going to disagree with this "forget they are there" bit. I interact with my grandparents every day. One of them needs a hearing aid, which they will never wear.

These are light weight, designed for comfort.

I am sceptical

I'm really hoping that Apple opens up an API to them. They have built in mics like here-one and the new Bose headphones. I would really like to see what app developers can do on a (somewhat) open platform. Intelligent noise cancelling, lowering the volume automatically when it detects someone talking to you, etc.

I would bet my bottom dollar it's not going to be an open platform. Apple is going to licence it to companies silly enough to pay.

@erikpukinskis that's absolutely a brilliant thought!! Very clever.

What you are talking about is not rocket science. Binaural audio. Look it up. It has its drawbacks. Compactness of the earbuds is not a breakthrough

Binaural audio just allows changing the (virtual) audio source relative to the ears; the novelty would be to track their location, so that you can use the binaural audio to keep the sound coming for a fixed place while the user moves around.

But the core mechanics of the audio method is flawed. Binaural has distinct sound characteristics, rather than a neutral canvas to project audio in whichever direction.

But flawed for what? It seems like you're making an argument, but only writing half of it down.

The concept explained by erikpukinskis wouldn't require a neutral canvas; it could generate the speech audio adapted to the binaural system.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com