Tech Employee's Pledge not to participate in racial or religious profiling | Hacker News Reader

Tech Employee's Pledge not to participate in racial or religious profiling

neveragain.tech

50 pointsTomte10 comments

This seems like a really empty, hollow pledge to me because the employers of these signatories fall into two categories:

1) Companies like Google or Facebook that already have "databases of identifying information...to target [for advertising] individuals based on race, religion, or national origin." That data exists. They're not going to delete it. If legally subpoenaed, they will turn it over.

2) Companies like "Poncho"[0] a cartoon cat that tells you the weather. They do not have this kind of data, and they never will, so there is zero chance of these signatories facing a tough decision to keep their pledge.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't think employees of type 1 are going to actually quit their jobs, or go rogue and delete their employers' data, and I don't think employees of type 2 are ever going to face any choice.

So how would this pledge ever demand any kind of action from signers? Somebody help me out here? It feels like the equivalent of tweeting "I really really don't like Trump".

[0] http://tryponcho.com/

Not a bad idea. Some other comments here seem to have missed that this is mainly about signaling. Most of the signatories won't get a chance to act on the pledge, but this way they can signal to each other that they are not alone, make it easier for those with the capability to act to actually act, provide a list of possible allies in case of need, make it clear to those who would like to push in the opposite direction that they will have to deal with resistance etc.

I agree 100% that it's about signaling, and that's why I find it kind of distasteful. It's a cheap and ultimately meaningless substitute for real activism, and it requires zero sacrifice on the part of these signatories. Even donating to the ACLU would mean giving up some small amount of money.

(P.S. Google and Facebook employees who've signed, can I expect you'll be resigning from your positions immediately? Your companies already have big, government-exploitable databases designed for [ad] targeting citizens based on race, religion, etc.)

I understand that signing it doesn't mean much. I signed. But it's a first step. Perhaps after that, you'll consider supporting/volunteering for the EFF or ACLU. It's a small action, but you have to stand for what you believe in.

More virtue signaling and keyboard heroism!

But you really lost me at the less-than-subtle Hitler reference.

I signed this, and I didn't sign it either to signal virtue or to be a keyboard hero. I signed it to have something to stick to if something that would compromise my morals does arise.

Your cynicism is unfortunate and gross.

So we disagree. Fair enough.

However, I don't think my cynicism is unfounded. Nor would I call it cynicism but rather realism. I mean, do you really need to have sent a pull request to remind you to not do things that make you feel morally bankrupt?

That you signed it leads me to conclude that you have actually bought into the "Trump is a Nazi" rhetoric. I'll explain:

1. Neveragain.tech - the name itself is a well known reference among Jews, "Never Again", in reference to the Holocaust [1]. The creators do this in a cheap effort to position themselves as/with the aggrieved in a "new Holocaust" narrative.

2. Furthering on this thinly-veiled narrative of "new Holocaust" they make more references to past mass deportations and genocides -- grouping them as if they are similar items in a basket. They are not. They are unique events in history, each with their own unique political, social, and other dynamics. Yet more intellectual dishonesty.

3. The document is written as if there is something new in the coming administration versus the previous ones. You want to stop collecting information on race? Then end the census. Abolish the IRS. End the FBI national crime database.

You see, this is not a pledge against anything new. It applies as much to Obama, Bush, or any administration going back in time.

Last point -- my point of view is neither cynical or gross. This pledge is cynical and gross. It is cynical and gross to use genocide and the memory of the Holocaust to build a narrative of doom and gloom around the incoming administration. It is cynical and gross to paint only negative outcomes as a result of stepped up enforcement of immigration and counter-terrorism law.

As always, the answers are somewhere in the middle.

[1] - http://english.stackexchange.com/a/39173

Can you see my reply elsewhere on this thread? Can you genuinely imagine a scenario where you be prompted to take action based on this pledge?

If you read any of the pieces discussing the late Thomas Schelling's contribution to game theory, you know that making a pledge to do X if Y occurs is a perfectly sound strategy to discourage Y from happening.

What if Y has already happened?

I submit that large tech companies already have existent today, "databases of identifying information...to target individuals based on race, religion, or national origin. "

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