Hacker News Reader

Comment by abalone | Hacker News Reader

What precisely is SF's theory here re: congestion? Previously taxis would circle streets much less efficiently than a smartphone-hailed pickup. Also they wouldn't pool rides anywhere nearly as effectively. So if they're seeing more traffic on the road, what's the cause?

Has there been population growth of riders? That wouldn't be Uber/Lyft's fault. In fact they may have handled the growth more efficiently than just putting more traditional taxis on the road.

Are riders shifting from public transit to rideshares? That would be Uber/Lyft's fault. But also public transit's.

Is it that more availability has lowered the wait times vs taxis? That would definitely be Uber/Lyft's fault. But it also makes riding a much nicer experience, saves riders a lot of time, etc.

View on HN

The taxis did not circle the streets. That was part of the problem. Unless you were walking out of the lobby of a downtown hotel, there was basically no chance of catching a cab in SF. The wait time for calling for a ride has been lowered from "never" to "3 minutes".

Uber/Lyft definitely have increased the growth of riders. I use both regularly and way more than I ever used cabs because it's cheaper, easier, and more reliable to use them.

There's been shift from public transit to rideshare - when an Uberpool is $3.50 and the bus is $2.25, a lot people are going to switch to Uberpool.

All that said, it seems like there are basically two sources of congestion in SF these days, and neither of them are rideshares: - the Bay Bridge, which backs up all the way up 1st, on to Bush and Battery, also down Bryant, also a couple of blocks of Harrison, and the central connector/Octavia/Oak street, every damn day. There are just a lot of people trying to get to the East Bay every day between 4 and 7. Also, BART is full. There is no cheap, quick solution to this. A second BART tube would help.

- everything for a couple of blocks around Union Square and Moscone is a mess. Everyone with an ounce of sense takes Muni here already, it's very heavily served by public transit. Once again, this is a centrally located area with a ton of hotels and a major convention center. If they got rid of all the rideshares tomorrow, more people would just drive to get here instead of taking Muni to get here, and traffic would be the same.

While the double-parking is annoying, it's not actually what's increasing congestion in SF. The biggest traffic problem in SF is that they didn't start building a second Transbay Tube 15 years ago.

> Uber/Lyft definitely have increased the growth of riders. I use both regularly and way more than I ever used cabs

When I say population growth I mean literally due to more people moving to SF or working downtown, which would not be their fault. Sounds like yours is a case of shifting from public transit to ridesharing, which is definitely due to Uber/Lyft being a better experience at an attractive price.

Perhaps we need to reach a point of inflection like in NYC where taking public transit is faster than navigating congested streets. But as it stands MUNI is often (significantly) slower than a rideshare.

Their theory is spelled out pretty clearly in the article. There are 1800 taxicabs permitted to operate in the city and many more Ubers/Lyfts.

The fact that people who use Uber and Lyft have to wait less is nice for them, but not so nice if the extra cars for hire circling for fares results in slower commutes for public transit users.

Does it result in significantly slower muni? Many major downtown routes have dedicated bus lanes, and obviously there is no impact on the subway.

Have you actually been in sf traffic in the uber/lyft world? My observations from my life:

-Double parking everywhere waiting for pickup / dropoff /routing. Blocking car and bike lanes.

-riders getting out into traffic

-erratic drivers (new to SF, easily lost)

Its pretty terrible.

If they painted their cars yellow, and made them pickup and drop off at corners / out if the flow of traffic things would be way better (imho).

You have to do this, otherwise the passenger will never find you. Passengers DO NOT walk to you when you pick them up. Even if you're waiting around the corner like 30 steps away.

They double parking everywhere needs to be dealt with by Uber / Lyft immediately. It's everywhere, all the time, and it's going to end up getting their services regulated more heavily than they should be.

What do you think they could actually do? I doubt either could exist if restricted to pick up and drop off in actual loading zones + available parking spaces. Bus stops are drastically more abundant than either of those.

There are a ton of things they could do with their app and it's messaging (eg,Encourage people to drag their pin drop to a corner).

Stopping at a corner is just as illegal as stopping anywhere else, isn't it?

the concern here is the blocking of traffic, not legality. Corners often have space to pull over without blocking traffic.

They actually do steer riders to designated pick up zones. But it's optional and most people probably just stick with their exact address. They could make it mandatory, but it wouldn't be competitive. I'd hope regulators look at this before more drastic restrictions, as there are many environmental benefits to ride sharing vs how things used to be.

The nearest white/yellow curb is usually 10+ blocks away, AFAIK. In SF they are only outside major buildings.

Doesn't have to be a white/yellow curb. Put your location to a spot that has a place where the cab can easily pull over eg, driveway, fire hydrant, etc.

I agree completely Uber and Lyft feel that a competitive app is more important than the overall traffic health and safety of a city. It's heartbreaking for me to watch them slowly destroy what was once a bike friendly city.

Yes and in my observations from life erratic driving and riders exiting inappropriately apply to taxis as well. Double parking for pickup is the new problem (not so much drop off). But that's a result of app based hailing and would apply to traditional taxis as well when responding to such hails (e.g. Flywheel). I see it more as a significant bike lane issue than a significant contributor to car congestion. Remember that easy and good taxi service reduces the motive to drive independently downtown, which reduces traffic.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com