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Comment by tibbon | Hacker News Reader

I have a similar problem in loud spaces. Given my activities (motorcycling, guitar playing, powertools, etc) I had assumed my hearing was bad, but when I went to an ENT/audiologist for unrelated things I had them give me a good test on a whim.

For me, the results were that I have hearing ability on-par with a ~5 year old, and they only see adults like me every 18 months or so. I've got a printoff of the chart around here somewhere, but it's well outside the normal, especially for my activities.

On the flipside, I'm very ADHD, which I think hurts my loud-space conversational abilities some. I always figure my ears are trying to listen to all of it at once.

(Most lightbulbs and televisions drive me up a wall, because I can hear them all the time)

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I went to an audiologist a few years back because I could hear certain things that would drive me up the wall. I thought it might be tinnitus or something like that- I ride motorcycles, am on the water in boats, use power tools, etc. Turns out I have exceptional hearing as well, and much better high frequency responses than an average 30 year old. Certain cheap lights and power transformers can drive me absolutely freaking crazy.

I have the same. They said it was hyperacusis. It's different than tinnitus.

This happens to me as well. I'll walk into a restaurant and there is a high pitched ringing coming from the HVAC on the ceiling, I ask anyone else if they hear it… no one does.

I can hear when most TVs are on - actually as I type this I can hear the monitor. It's just a high pitched constant sound like a dog whistle.

Yet when I am in noisy environments I often am much less adept at figuring out what people are saying than others.

Are these two things related?

Probably not. There is a particular kind of hearing problem, where the brain doesn't process the frequency bins that sounds are broken down into very well. It impacts your ability to do source separation and tell the difference between different sources of sound. The symptom of this particular issue is that you can hear just fine when one person is talking, but have trouble in any environment where there are multiple sources of sound, so several people talking at once, background noise etc.

Because people have no problems in the classic quiet room, one person talking sound test environment, it tends to slip through the simple screening tests.

"Because people have no problems in the classic quiet room, one person talking sound test environment, it tends to slip through the simple screening tests."

This is exactly why every time I've had an Audiology test, I've never scored above "Average - Above Average", even though I can hear nearly every fluorescent light ballast, powered-on TV, etc. From my own personal tests that I've done with soundwave generators, I can hear up to about 20khz.

> actually as I type this I can hear the monitor. It's just a high pitched constant sound like a dog whistle.

Curse you for this! I've had this monitor for years without a problem and now I can't unhear it!!

By the way, I have the same exact problems as you do: hypersensitivity to high frequencies, and I can't hear / understand crap in a bar.

What you are most likely hearing are switched-mode power supplies, the cheaper the nosier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply

"The operating frequency of an unloaded SMPS is sometimes in the audible human range, and may sound subjectively quite loud for people whose hearing is very sensitive to the relevant frequency range."

Even analog power supplies will generate a 50/60hz hum (depending on what the power-lines are providing)

Yes, the one that came with my Amazon Echo is the worst. I can hear it from 15 feet away. If I walk up to it and push on it it stops. I don't think pushing on it really makes the difference, I was guessing that it has to do with grounding it or something electrical changes when I touch it.

The hum you hear is actually double the mains frequency (100/120 Hz) with emphasis on odd harmonics going up. Magnetostriction gives you two expansion/contraction events per wavelength, effectively doubling the frequency. (If everything is perfect, spherical cow in a vacuum, &c.)

I can hear SSDs, consistently when I plug them, and the noise stops when unpluged, is that weird?

I'm glad to know it is not just me! Our cheap HP printer makes the worst racket, when the house is quiet I can hear it in all the way in the kitchen from the other side of the house. Nobody else notices it, and I tried unplugging it once and it made an even worse noise (probably would fade as the capacitors discharge but when I was trying to sleep without a fan in another room I didn't care to wait).

As a kid I always used to take the batteries out of clocks when I would sleep at other peoples houses on a couch or something but since becoming an adult around 29 I gained a little more mental control so I can deal with that stuff a little better.

Intra-auricular earphones do the trick for me, temporarily. It's not earplugs but cancels enough to let me sleep.

Yep, I have to be in a top-floor apartment with earplugs and double pane windows. I live near the mountains and it has done a lot for my quality of sleep and quality of life.

That is a good point, when I started sleeping with earplugs at my parents house where I don't have a fan or some noisemaker it made a huge difference to me. I found I would fall asleep much faster even when there was no actual obvious noises to keep me up. I've noticed when I'm falling asleep even minor noises can 'jolt' me (its the best description I can think of) and effectively reset my progress of falling asleep. Putting in earplugs can cut my time-to-sleep in half when I'm away from home.

This is me too. Also, treble-heavy noises like squeaks drive me insane.

There is not a hinge in my life that goes un-lubricated.

Also known as the "I'm certain there's a TV that was left on somewhere in this house" phenomenon. I agree, annoying as hell.

Where "left on" means "merely plugged in, because they used a shitty noisy capacitor that whines even when on standby"

OTOH, unplugging those devices saves you energy.

Exactly, it doesn't even need to have a picture on the screen.

i've noticed more and more cheap USB wall-wart chargers. I can hear them pulsing, it's sort of interesting, but super frustrating when trying to go to sleep (I end up just unplugging.. for which you can hear it scream as it drains)

I used to love the idea of a device without fans or spinning hard drive. But the last two "silent" tablets I've had randomly made very faint, but annoying, high pitch squeaking. Vibrating capacitors, I think. So ironically, I was better off with at least a low speed fan to provide white noise to cover up this faint electronic noise.

I feel sorry for house dogs and cats, they must be going crazy listening to all the irritating electronic noises that most people don't notice.

Similarly: birds and old CRTs and fluorescent lights (they are much more sensitive to the flickering than we are)

I so happy to know there are other people that experience this. When I try to explain to people that I can hear a CRT TV with with no sound/muted just because it's on they think I'm crazy.

I was 26 before I realized the whole world couldn't hear CRT screens.

I find that hard to believe (that the whole world can't hear CRT screens) as the capacitor or whatever it was, winds up/down - it's pretty loud. I think it's the case that there are a lot of older people that can't hear that high pitched scream, and its only younger people who can hear in that high frequency.

With an app like Spectral Audio, you can actually prove this to them. Though informing them of their inferior hearing may not be beneficial to a friendship. Ymmv.

I'm 33, I got a powerline plug that emits a high-pitched whine that drives me crazy. When I was in Tokyo, my friends and I would pass outside a shop at night that would have a supremely annoying whine that made me quickly walk away from it, but none of my friends could hear it.

I also frequently have to ask people to repeat themselves and can't hear what they're saying well in noisy environments. I think I have superhuman hearing loss.

There are shops in Tokyo (and other countries) that emit a high pitched noise to keep teenagers from loitering

While I don't think we have those, there are anti-marten devices for cars that are supposedly outside of the range of human hearing. They really hurt.

I'm in Osaka right now and you'll find those around the temples at night. They kill my ears but I'm the only one in my group that can hear them.

I think they're meant to scare cats away, but they work well for teenagers and people like myself (26)

When I was a kid, we had a monitor that whined when there wasn't any video going to it. My parents couldn't hear it, but I could hear it from across the house. I'd get up when my father went to bed to turn it off.

Closer to what I think you're describing: The TV didn't "whine" really (at least, I was never completely conscious of it), but I always knew when it was on.

My hearing isn't quite as good now, but there are still a few devices that I keep unplugged because they're loud and high-pitched.

I've wondered if hearing loss can be induced purposely for specific ranges for cases like this. Maybe just loud sound of a given frequency would work since that would only resonate with and damage its associated hairs inside the ear.

This Reddit comment [1] suggests that people who work around CRTs a lot have a "notch" on their hearing tests at the CRT frequency of 15.734kHz. So yes it is possible.

On the other hand, you probably don't want the tinnitus that often comes with noise-induced hearing loss. Better to be able to turn off the noise (or wear earplugs) than to hear it all the time.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1tepwv/why_is_t...

Naw. Just wear crappy earplugs (that is, that don't do a great job of silencing).

When I wear earplugs I can understand conversations better. Like many others in this thread, I have uncommonly good hearing but find it difficult to hear any conversation in a loud environment.

Same here. I have above average hearing (30 yo as well) and I hate so many high-pitched tones. But in a club or a bar I can barely understand anyone :(

Same same. Comparing my equal loudness hearing curve to that of my father is scarry, hehe. But neither of us understands too well when is noisy.

Hah. I discovered I could "hear electricity" when I was about 12 (and I still have a bit of it in my 40's), but luckily it was never particularly annoying (unless it was also quite loud).

Bonus: I leveraged it into the ability to emit (by sort-of-whistling with the tip of my tongue against my palate) sounds in the same frequency range (which has provided many hours of amusement over the years).

Oh, and this age-related degradation of hearing in the upper registers is also the basis of a few interesting things, like devices that discourage teens from loitering[1], and apps that allow teens to communicate under the noses of adults[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito

[2] http://www.psfk.com/2015/09/high-frequency-app-text-ringtone...

Printers, crt displays back when they were a thing, cheap chargers... even low-end LCD displays. All of them emit a high pitched frequency that can be maddening.

Interestingly it's pitched above the range of my tinnitus so I get to hear both most of the time :/

Summer here is my favorite time of year for that reason - the insect noise gets so loud at night, and falls right into the range of the tinnitus and e-noise such that it completely obscures them. It's almost like those sounds aren't there for a few months every year.

I need to get a hearing test, but I can often hear things that people around me can't (TVs, radios, bad speakers, etc). But put me in a noisy bar or restaurant and I'm at a loss. I figure it's my ADHD as well.

On a related note, this is why people talking during movies is so infuriating for me: while they're talking the movie is basically turned off for me.

Could also be related to HSP http://blogs.psychcentral.com/adhd-zoe/2011/06/10-signs-that...

That page seems pretty... unscientific. Sensitivity to coarse language, for example, is a social issue that has nothing to do with sensory sensitivity.

Same for me and apparently many others in this post. Can hear fine with a single source of sound, little noises in distant rooms etc but put me in a noisy bar and I can't make out a thing.

You might want to find an audiologist who knows how to diagnose/exclude Central Auditory Processing Disorder. It mimics some ADHD symptoms that aren't specifically hearing related, but also has as a hallmark not being able to separate foreground from background in noisy places and "hearing" people but not parsing the speech.

Some of the earliest work that Kahneman and Taversky (think behavioral economics or biases) stumbled upon that told them the brain was filtering/processing unconsciously and incorrectly was hearing focus. Different people would be able to recall strings of numbers played into each ear at varying levels of ability. The better you were at picking up more input streams, the better a bus driver, fighter pilot, or tank captain you would be.

Same-ish, I have perfect hearing and my eyesight is 20/15. I can barely hear people in bars or clubs. The best solution I've found so far are musicians ear plugs which attenuate most of the bass and highs in such environments. I've tried a few brands from Etymotic to Surefire to Alpine and I generally like the Alpine ones the most. Flare Audio also makes some, and I've looked at DUBS before as well. A few years ago, Etymotic was one of the only good products in this space, but there are a few now.

I'd definitely pony up for a pair from Bose. Their headphones don't impress me in the outright SQ department, but they have the best noise cancellation tech I've heard.

>"For me, the results were that I have hearing ability on-par with a ~5 year old, and they only see adults like me every 18 months or so."

Can you elaborate on this? Is this good? Does that age correspond with undamaged hearing?

Yeah, that's the implication. Age-related hearing loss is called presbycusis; it's quite common. Some of it can be attributed to being exposed to loud noises throughout our lives.

That makes sense. Thanks. I wonder what thing will be like after people have had 10-15 years of daily music listening through earbuds.

Hard as it may be to believe, earbuds/earphones/in-ear headphones were not invented with the iPod, or even the MP3 player. ;-)

Today, many adults already have significant hearing loss from having regularly listened to loud music on portable players like the Walkman starting 30+ years ago. The first research on this seems to have been done in the mid-80's.

>"Hard as it may be to believe, earbuds/earphones/in-ear headphones were not invented with the iPod, or even the MP3 player"

Believe I am well aware of that time before ipod/iphone/streaming services etc :)

However back then there amount of time spent by people wearing earphone and headphones was much smaller comparison. Even with the existence of the Walkman it was not common to see people using them for instance in the office and at their desks for hours at a time during the work day.

People also didn't spend hours on the phone chatting socially with them either.

My comment was really more about non-congenital hearing issues being potentially common place in the future as a result of this change.

> Even with the existence of the Walkman it was not common to see people using them for instance in the office and at their desks for hours at a time during the work day.

You're only considering adults. Teens definitely did spend hours a day with earbuds in.

>On the flipside, I'm very ADHD, which I think hurts my loud-space conversational abilities some.

Same. I'm also pretty sure that extreme difficulty sifting through conversations in noisy environments is a symptom.

I too have ADD and experience this.

For me (ADD) it help a lot with a couple of simple music ear plugs. It might sound a bit weird, but the lower volume helps me pick out voices much easier. Also concerts started sounding like music instead of mostly ... noise.

Has been like this forever and have never had any (other) problems with my hearing.

Can't agree with this more! Seriously, if you're a fan of live music, grab a pair and just try it at the next concert you go to.

Its a signal/noise attenuation, you'll hear _more_ detail, not less.

A pair like these are what I'd consider 'high end':

https://www.amazon.com/ETY-Plugs-Fidelity-Earplugs-Standard-...

But I've always got a cheap set from the pharmacy in my pocket or the car somewhere. Something like this is perfect:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HEAROS-High-Fidelity-free-case/15...

Interesting! I can totally see having hyper sensitive hearing being very annoying too. From one rider to another, make sure you always wear hearing protection under your helmet :)

I wonder if that's the problem - hearing is too sensitive - I have mysophonia (level 6) and I'm more likely to hear a packet of sweets being opened than someone talking.

Bar type conversations usually have me decoding people's facial expressions and nodding or grimacing at the right times.

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