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Comment by drawnwren | Hacker News Reader

I'd argue that Mr. Robot just perpetuates the Hollywood Hacker stereotype. Sure, the logistics of hacking have moved closer to the truth, but it was unable to escape the moralistic 'greater good' story arc of most hacker movies. It seems like, given the distribution of breakins and news articles about discovered hacks, there are very few morally motivated hackers and when those hackers do surface - their hacks take the form of much broader less targeted attacks than those of the show. i.e. It's a lot more of grab Xtb of data and then find the weak passwords than everyone has weak passwords.

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Yes. The story arc matters more than technical detail. And the moral tropes are boring.

I've come to realize that I actually care less about the technical inaccuracies than I do about a good plot. I don't expect the general public to know a lot about hacking, and I don't care that much. Sometimes it can contribute to the plot (e.g.: prison SCADA systems being easy to break), but often it isn't that important, if it's not too ham-handed.

I care more about a good story. So yeah, the story arc matters, the dialogue matters (the conversations, the attitudes of the characters) -- all the basic elements of a good film/tv show/movie matter first. Which is why I stopped watching Mr. Robot at the beginning of season 2. I just didn't care about the characters or story any more.

Maybe it gets better? Personally, if you're looking for a good story, involving technology and morality, I can't recommend West World enough. There's some "hacking" involved and the show over all is genius. Just my $.02.

[edit] I'll add that the article does bring up the point of the societal harms technically "dumb" plots can cause -- making computing/hacking seem like magic for example. This is an interesting point, but I still think this is less important than a good plot. The potential social benefits of good writing outweigh everything else, if you ask me.

I am surprised you found something in the characters and development arcs of Westworld that you didn't see in Mr. Robot. Westworld is almost entirely plot based with little care or regard for character motivations or development while Mr. Robot spends a lot more time on that type of thing.

Yeah its not exactly an apt comparison I suppose anyway.

Westworld is quite brutal to the characters and you're right, mostly plot driven. And I did find much to like in the first season of Mr. Robot, but then I got bored with the story arc near the end and into the beginning of season 2.

This is somewhat tangential (although related to the "good guys" hacker trope), but one detail I loved from the begining of Mr. Robot was the reference to Enron with the Evil Corp logo. I will definitely give the show credit for its self awareness of it's 90s roots...

>I care more about a good story... Which is why I stopped watching Mr. Robot at the beginning of season 2. I just didn't care about the characters or story any more...Personally, if you're looking for a good story, involving technology and morality, I can't recommend West World enough.

Interesting. The same critique you have of Mr. Robot, I have of Westworld: plot lines that are irrelevant, huge loopholes, and characters that don't develop and that I don't care for.

To each their own of course. Perhaps it's the underlying plot that really bothers me with Mr. Robot -- it feels very 90s to me, even if the surface details are much better. Today, we live in a world where "lone genius hacker" types are becoming thoroughly commoditized. It's all about careers, money, thesis papers. Weaponised exploits are now bought and sold. To people with capital it might as well be magic, why should they care? If you're a kid who identifies with a character like Elliot on some level, you may not realize that's what you're getting into. Maybe this is toched upon in a way I didn't get or see in Mr. Robot?

Then Westworld is basically science fiction, with a good bit of philosophy (which I didn't expect when I started watching it). I liked the way it shifted perspective between the guests, hosts, and operators throughout each episode so much, it left me questioning reality a bit for a few minutes after each episode.

You've said exactly my thoughts.

Watching Westworld, I often find myself frowning upon a certain line of dialogue which sounds forced or 'off' in some way, or a scene which looks like it's meant to be emotional but just doesn't make me feel the sentiment. I also liked the daring, weird shots and cinematography in Mr. Robot. Sadly, in Westworld, there is less of this, as the director has opted for a more 'textbook' approach to filming and editing.

Not to say that Westworld isn't an enjoyable show, just that I too just can't seem to like it better than Mr. Robot.

I feel like "emotional but just doesn't make me feel the sentiment" scenes are an intentional specialty of westworld. There are enough "false" endings to emotional scenes (e.g., the beachfront scene in the final episode of s1) that the viewer is trained to question the authenticity of any emotion expressed by the hosts. You could say that that's really the crux of the whole series, and still an open question. The best modern successor to Philip Dick in that regard.

You should give season 2 another shot. I almost gave up on it too, but it did deliver a good story even if it took a couple episodes to get warmed up.

Read the Hacking Team writeup? I don't know their personality, but the person behind that hack is definitely a very talented hacker and the attack was certainly targeted. He got in with a 0day and it was politically motivated.

That 'good hacker' exists.

I hadn't. I just did. You're right. Link for any future readers: http://pastebin.com/raw/0SNSvyjJ

Wow. I remember scanning this writeup when it first became public, but looking back over it, I'm certainly struck by the author(s) seeming desire to educate their audience...

When thinking of this topic, the Hacking Team hack was one of the first to come to my mind, but political motivations are hard to untangle or to separate from even purely economic motivations (e.g.: commercial competitors disguising motives with political rhetoric).

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